HyperCard Mailing List

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 1 of 31)
MP0werd@[redacted].com <MP0werd@[redacted].com>
Wednesday, 08-May-2002 07:04 GMT
In a message dated 5/8/02 4:38:27 AM, you wrote:

>Who did "Myst" and are they a member of this group?
>
>How did they get that sensational interface?
>
>Was Riven also an HC product?
>
>Jon

Cyan, no, XCMDs/XFCNs, partially

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 2 of 31)
J Morgan <arndell@[redacted].au>
Wednesday, 08-May-2002 08:38 GMT
Who did "Myst" and are they a member of this group?

How did they get that sensational interface?

Was Riven also an HC product?

Jon


Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 3 of 31)
Colin Holgate <colin@[redacted].com>
Wednesday, 08-May-2002 12:28 GMT
>Who did "Myst" and are they a member of this group?
>
>How did they get that sensational interface?
>
>Was Riven also an HC product?


I think that MP0werd already went into great detail, but here is more info:

Cyan is the company that developed it, with Rand and Robin Miller
being the leads in the team. They also play the parts in the video of
the two brothers, and one of them also play the father. They're not
on this list.

The interface is a mix of colored pictures and QuickTime movies. I'm
not certain which XCMD they used for QuickTime, possible the
QuickTime team's one, because I'm not sure if the Claris one had
borderless windows at that time. The colored pictures, and
transitions, were done with HyperTint, with some additional custom
code.

Riven was completely developed in HyperCard, I believe, but then
transferred over to a cross platform tool for shipping.


Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 4 of 31)
hcheaven@[redacted].com <hcheaven@[redacted].com>
Wednesday, 08-May-2002 14:16 GMT
Just a few additional things...

>Who did "Myst" ...

As previously mentioned, it was Cyan. They've been big
supporters of HyperCard and Rand Miller wrote to Steve
Jobs a couple years ago in support of HC, but they are no
longer using HC as their new games are now in real-time 3D.



>Was Riven also an HC product?


Yes, it was delivered to their publisher as a HyperCard stack.
(Cyan thinks it was probably the largest HC stack ever made.)
Their publisher then converted it to a proprietary cross-
platform game engine before it was released.

Jim

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 5 of 31)
John Miller <jmiller@[redacted].ca>
Wednesday, 08-May-2002 21:22 GMT
At 08:28 AM 5/8/02 -0400, Colin Holgate wrote:
>The interface is a mix of colored pictures and QuickTime movies. I'm
>not certain which XCMD they used for QuickTime, possible the
>QuickTime team's one, because I'm not sure if the Claris one had
>borderless windows at that time.

My understanding is that Claris added the required
features (borderless windows, "don't paint white")
to the Movie XCMD for Cyan.

John Miller
Symplex Systems Ltd.


Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 6 of 31)
Colin Holgate <colin@[redacted].com>
Wednesday, 08-May-2002 21:34 GMT
>My understanding is that Claris added the required
>features (borderless windows, "don't paint white")
>to the Movie XCMD for Cyan.


Well, that may be true, but I was hanging out at Voyager back then (I
think this was just before I moved to the States to work for them, a
year or so before Myst came out), and one of the engineers at Voyager
was giving feedback to Claris on things that they could improve. I
feel sure that borderless was one of them. The QuickTime team (Ken
Doyle's) xcmd did have dontpaintwhite as a feature, the Claris one is
donterase.

I've e-mailed my ex-colleague, see if he can recall which features he
helped on.



--

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 7 of 31)
John Miller <jmiller@[redacted].ca>
Wednesday, 08-May-2002 22:41 GMT
At 05:34 PM 5/8/02 -0400, Colin Holgate wrote:
>>My understanding is that Claris added the required
>>features (borderless windows, "don't paint white")
>>to the Movie XCMD for Cyan.
>
>
>Well, that may be true, but I was hanging out at Voyager back then (I
>think this was just before I moved to the States to work for them, a
>year or so before Myst came out), and one of the engineers at Voyager
>was giving feedback to Claris on things that they could improve. I
>feel sure that borderless was one of them. The QuickTime team (Ken
>Doyle's) xcmd did have dontpaintwhite as a feature, the Claris one is
>donterase.
>
>I've e-mailed my ex-colleague, see if he can recall which features he
>helped on.
>

Likely, it was a common request. My vague recollection is that
it was added "for Cyan" but, really, this could easily be
that Cyan was given early access to an upcoming Movie XCMD
version. I'm pretty sure that the publicly available version
of the Movie XCMD did not have these features when Myst was
released (or, at least, developed). I'm certain that Myst
used the Claris Movie XCMD, but that is easily checked by
anyone with motivation, Myst, and ResEdit/ResCopy.

>feel sure that borderless was one of them. The QuickTime team (Ken
>Doyle's) xcmd did have dontpaintwhite as a feature, the Claris one is
>donterase.

Yea, yea, just showing my age. :) I couldn't remember what the
Claris term was.

And I don't suppose Mr. Doyle's QTMovie XCMD had borderless
windows: it supported a "direct" mode that did not use
windows (and which was the mode needed to use QTMovie
in SuperCard).

Borderless windows and dontErase would be needed to replace
QTMovie's direct mode (which leads me to suggest they would
be common feature requests).

Of course, some people were foolish enough to use
the Movie XCMD's movieClose (or whatever it was called)
callback to cause things to happen (e.g. go to next card)
when a movie had finished. It would corrupt memory,
which, on two occasions, led to HyperTint being blamed
for memory corruption (one time rather rudely, as I recall).
Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 8 of 31)
Colin Holgate <colin@[redacted].com>
Wednesday, 08-May-2002 22:41 GMT
Ok, I've got some better information. My anecdote was more or less
right, except that it was Ken Doyle's QTMovie xcmd that was
customized for Voyager, not the Claris one, because that didn't exist
at the time.


--

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 9 of 31)
John Miller <jmiller@[redacted].ca>
Wednesday, 08-May-2002 23:09 GMT
At 08:28 AM 5/8/02 -0400, Colin Holgate wrote:
>>Who did "Myst" and are they a member of this group?
>>
>>How did they get that sensational interface?
[...]
>The interface is a mix of colored pictures and QuickTime movies.

And of course, good ol' DeCurse to override
HyperCard's default cursor with their colour
hand. (DeCurse'92 to be more precise, which
added support for colour cursors.)

And just to throw in a piece of trivia,
did you know that HyperCard rolled its own
I-beam cursor? For the first few versions
of HyperCard 2.x, at least, the hotspot was
in the wrong spot. (That is, it did not
agree with the system's I-beam cursor.)
There were a number of complaints about
selecting the wrong line in HyperCard.

I can't recall whether I made DeCurse's "I-beam"
selector match HyperCard's or the system's..
(I think it might have matched HyperCard's, in
which case a scripter had to manually specify
the I-beam cursor to override it in another
environment, such as SuperCard.)

Somewhere along the line, HyperCard's I-beam
was fixed.


Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 10 of 31)
Colin Holgate <colin@[redacted].com>
Thursday, 09-May-2002 00:15 GMT
>Somewhere along the line, HyperCard's I-beam
>was fixed.

Me again, only this bit of trivia I remember well, because it involved me.

For most of the first four years of HyperCard's life, I was working
in Apple Tech Support. I used HyperCard a lot to make tools to help
us do our job better. In fact, when I first got there they should me
a drawer full on notepads, where they had carefully checked off boxes
to describe what each phone call was about. When I saw HyperCard, I
thought, hmm... this could be used instead of all that paper...

I digress. In about 1990 I was hearing reports about how when you
clicked at the end of a line in HyperCard, and then typed, the text
would appear at the beginning of the next line. I had seen that for
myself, and I tried it a number of times, and sure enough it would
happen.

I forwarded the problem to the HyperCard team (I didn't know them
personally by that time, because they were 6000 miles away), and when
I chased them for a response, they told me that they had someone
clicking away madly at the end of lines for 45 minutes, and it didn't
go wrong once.

That upset me enough to look into the problem more. I tried to
analyze what was different between the times it went wrong and the
times it didn't. In the end I figured it out. If had a flashing
insertion point at the end of a line that had a return and another
line after it, and you carefully clicked exactly one pixel to the
right of that, the next text you typed would appear on the following
line.

I quickly found that it wasn't a HyperCard problem after all, it
would go wrong in various editors. I sent the HyperCard team an
AppleLink (that's how we e-mailed each other in those days),
describing how to show the problem, and using AppleLink as the
example editor that went wrong. This time they replied to say that
they could reproduce the problem easily.

It turned out that the bug was in TextEdit, in the Mac system
toolbox. Any program that used it would show the same issue. There
was a temporary fix, and then I think it was fully fixed in System
6.02.


That may have been a different issue to the one John is talking
about, but it sounds like it might be the same one.



Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 11 of 31)
hcheaven@[redacted].com <hcheaven@[redacted].com>
Thursday, 09-May-2002 19:05 GMT
>My understanding is that Claris added the required
>features ...to the Movie XCMD for Cyan.


I emailed Richard Watson at Cyan about this (he did much
of the HyperCard programming for Myst). Here's Richard's
reply:

>We were beta testing the Movie XCMD, so during Myst's
>development we had access to some of those features
>early, but as far as Rand [Miller] and I remember it, the
>XCMD in the released version of Myst was the current
>publically-available XMCD at that time.
>
>We provided them [Claris] a great deal of feedback and
>asked for many features as part of the beta group, but
>it's entirely possible that all our requests were already
>in the works when we asked for them. Only Claris
>knows. :)
>
>Movie XCMD trivia:
>
>In the beta documentation for the Movie XCMD, there
>are example illustrations which use the Space Spuds from
>Cosmic Osmo. :)


(Cosmic Osmo was one of Cyan's earlier games.)

Jim

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 12 of 31)
Colin Holgate <colin@[redacted].com>
Friday, 10-May-2002 00:35 GMT
>
>(Cosmic Osmo was one of Cyan's earlier games.)


Possibly the second one they did. I used to show off The Manhole
while I was Apple.



Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 13 of 31)
Dominique <listehcdomi@[redacted].fr>
Friday, 10-May-2002 19:22 GMT
Colin Holgate ecrivait / wrote:

>Possibly the second one they did. I used to show off The Manhole

I do have the Manhole -- in B&W
But, I think I saw it -- in colors!
Nobody knows how to get a copy of it?
--
Regards,
Dominique

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 14 of 31)
Colin Holgate <colin@[redacted].com>
Friday, 10-May-2002 20:06 GMT
> >Possibly the second one they did. I used to show off The Manhole
>
>I do have the Manhole -- in B&W
>But, I think I saw it -- in colors!
>Nobody knows how to get a copy of it?


The black and white Manhole was on floppies I think. See if you can
find a CD version, it's likely to be colored. Here's a picture of the
CD:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1351824878

but I'm not sure if that's just PC, or cross platform. You could
e-mail the seller, see if it is, and also make sure it's the colored
version.


--

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 15 of 31)
scottkbrn <skbrn@[redacted].net>
Saturday, 11-May-2002 04:30 GMT
---
>
> The black and white Manhole was on floppies I think. See if you can
> find a CD version, it's likely to be colored. Here's a picture of the
> CD:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1351824878
>
> but I'm not sure if that's just PC, or cross platform. You could
> e-mail the seller, see if it is, and also make sure it's the colored
> version.
>
>
> --

I have a CD version of the Manhole, but it too is in B/W (which I don't
mind at all; it's a great HC product). I would like to find a copy of
Cosmic Osmo.

Scott



Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 16 of 31)
hcheaven@[redacted].com <hcheaven@[redacted].com>
Sunday, 12-May-2002 12:40 GMT
Forgot to mention -- a complete list of Cyan's games
along with brief descriptions and box covers is available
here:

http://www.cyanworlds.com/games.ssi

It's not totally in chronological order, though, so you
have to read the captions to figure out the sequence.

Jim

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 17 of 31)
David John Downs <djdowns@[redacted].com>
Sunday, 12-May-2002 17:29 GMT
Hey, all.

Can anyone "in the know" with Cyan tell me why these older games haven't
just been released to the Mac community at large? I mean, it's not as if
Cosmic Osmo is still available for sale at Best Buy or anything...

--
D. John Downs http://www.davidjohndowns.com


Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 18 of 31)
hcheaven@[redacted].com <hcheaven@[redacted].com>
Monday, 13-May-2002 10:31 GMT
>Can anyone "in the know" with Cyan tell me why
>these older games haven't just been released to
>the Mac community at large?

This subject came up previously in one of the Myst discussion
groups and I think a Cyan staffer said their legal contracts with
their various publishers would prevent that.

Plus there's always the chance that a game might be sold again.
For example, Cyan has partially completed a colorized version of
Cosmic Osmo (although it's been a low-priority project for them
and might not be ready for some time). Releasing the b&w version
for free might hurt the market for the colorized one.

Jim

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 19 of 31)
Dominique <listehcdomi@[redacted].fr>
Tuesday, 14-May-2002 17:55 GMT
hcheaven@[redacted].comecrivait / wrote:

>Releasing the b&w version
>for free might hurt the market for the colorized one.

Too stupid!
In fact, that will certainly be an incentive to get the colorized version ;-))
--
Regards,
Dominique

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 20 of 31)
David John Downs <djdowns@[redacted].com>
Wednesday, 15-May-2002 02:17 GMT
> Plus there's always the chance that a game might be sold again.
> For example, Cyan has partially completed a colorized version of
> Cosmic Osmo (although it's been a low-priority project for them
> and might not be ready for some time). Releasing the b&w version
> for free might hurt the market for the colorized one.

I was wondering about this from a programmer's perspective. I consider
myself a fairly accomplished HyperCard developer, yet I've never even had
the opportunity to see these sorts of landmark stacks: The Manhole, Cosmic
Osmo, Focal Point (was that the name of Goodman's effort?), etc.

Browsing warez sites is no help. The Hotline- and Gnutella-type filesharing
communities are only interested in porn and the latest games and apps.
Someone needs to start an anonymous xCard repository for this stuff.


--
D. John Downs http://www.davidjohndowns.com


Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 21 of 31)
hcheaven@[redacted].com <hcheaven@[redacted].com>
Thursday, 16-May-2002 10:42 GMT
>>[Cyan is] no longer using HC as their new
>>games are now in real-time 3D.

>So, what exactly enables one to create real-time 3D games?
>* Revolution/MetaCard? * AppleScript Studio?* QuickTime?...
>I used to hear that HyperCard with X-things could do anything...


While it might be theoretically possible to adapt programs like
HyperCard or MetaCard to produce a realtime 3D game, from a
practical standpoint they would be inappropriate choices.

In Cyan's case, they purchased a company called Headspin which
had developed a 3D game engine, and Headspin's employees now
work at Cyan developing their 3D technology. Cyan used their engine
for a 3D version of Myst which they call realMYST, and they are
using a more advanced version of that engine for their next game,
which is code-named Mudpie.

Jim

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 22 of 31)
Sunatori, Go Simon <GS.Sunatori@[redacted].CA>
Thursday, 16-May-2002 13:51 GMT
Jim wrote:
>
> As previously mentioned, it was Cyan. They've been big
> supporters of HyperCard and Rand Miller wrote to Steve
> Jobs a couple years ago in support of HC, but they are no
> longer using HC as their new games are now in real-time 3D.

So, what exactly enables one to create real-time 3D games?

* Revolution/MetaCard?
* AppleScript Studio?
* QuickTime?
* iShell?
* ???

I used to hear that HyperCard with X-things could do anything...
--
Simon Sunatori <http://WWW.HyperInfo.CA/~GS.Sunatori@HyperInfo.CA/>;
65, des Parulines <mailto:GS.Sunatori@[redacted].CA
Hull (Quebec) <telephone:+1-819-595-9210>
CANADA J9A 1Z4 <facsimile:+1-425-984-7292>

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 23 of 31)
Colin Holgate <colin@[redacted].com>
Thursday, 16-May-2002 14:50 GMT
>Cyan used their engine
>for a 3D version of Myst which they call realMYST, and they are
>using a more advanced version of that engine for their next game,
>which is code-named Mudpie.
>
>Jim


Jim, maybe you'll know the answer to this. Before Exile was released,
I feel sure I answered a survey somewhere about whether I would
prefer a DVD-ROM version, which of course I said Yes. It might not
have been Cyan, but I thought it was.

I have Riven on CD and DVD-ROM, but I'm not going to do that with
Exile, I'll wait until there's a DVD-ROM version. I did however play
the game while I was staying with my brother a few months ago, and so
I've got mostly finished game save files, which I'm hoping I could
use with a DVD-ROM version.

Do you have any idea if they are going to release a DVD-ROM version of Exile?


--

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 24 of 31)
Ken Norris (dialup) <pixelbird@[redacted].net>
Thursday, 16-May-2002 15:21 GMT
on 5/16/02 6:51 AM, Sunatori, Go Simon at GS.Sunatori@[redacted].CAwrote:

> So, what exactly enables one to create real-time 3D games?
>
> * Revolution/MetaCard?
> * AppleScript Studio?
> * QuickTime?
> * iShell?
> * ???
>
> I used to hear that HyperCard with X-things could do anything...
----------
Well, that's _almost_ true, but in answer to your first question:

A) If you are developing small specific animations for use in say,
instructional apps or the like, then even HC with some animation XCMD's or
RR, and QuickTime Pro should work fine.

B) Myst being one exception in its original concept, then none of the above.
If you want to develop lengthy, complex action games for commercial
distribution, then, generally speaking, you should be thinking in terms of
using 3D engines designed for that purpose

That being said, I know you _can_ do some really amazing things with HC, MC,
RR, and QT.

Best regards,
Ken N.


Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 25 of 31)
Ken Norris (dialup) <pixelbird@[redacted].net>
Friday, 17-May-2002 07:27 GMT
on 5/16/02 7:42 AM, hcheaven@[redacted].comat hcheaven@[redacted].comwrote:

> While it might be theoretically possible to adapt programs like
> HyperCard or MetaCard to produce a realtime 3D game, from a
> practical standpoint they would be inappropriate choices.
>
> In Cyan's case, they purchased a company called Headspin which
> had developed a 3D game engine, and Headspin's employees now
> work at Cyan developing their 3D technology. Cyan used their engine
> for a 3D version of Myst which they call realMYST, and they are
> using a more advanced version of that engine for their next game,
> which is code-named Mudpie.
----------
Well, for anyone who is really serious about 3D animation, check out
Alias|Wavefront's Maya:

http://www.aliaswavefront.com/en/WhatWeDo/maya/see/gallery/gallery.shtml

....sumpin' else, ain't it? But at $2 Grand, you _do_ need to be serious.
They have a free learning program for it, though.

....on the other hand, if you just want to get started, checkout Cinema 4D GO
(the starter version of Cinema 4D 7XL):

http://www.maxoncomputer.com/

....look for the GO version. At $140 it looks pretty good. There is also a
free demo D/L.

Nothing you can do in HC can even approach these things, but you _can_
create QT movies with them which you can control with HC. In fact, Maya has
full AppleScript support (don't know about 4D GO, though), and, as Charles
says: "You _know_ what that means."

Best regards,
Ken N.
Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 26 of 31)
hcheaven@[redacted].com <hcheaven@[redacted].com>
Friday, 17-May-2002 10:58 GMT
>Before Exile was released, I feel sure I answered
>a survey somewhere about whether I would
>prefer a DVD-ROM version, which of course I
>said Yes. It might not have been Cyan, but I
>thought it was. ... Do you have any idea if they
>are going to release a DVD-ROM version of Exile?

I think that survey was actually done by Cyan's publisher,
Ubi Soft, and the feedback they got was that the demand
for a DVD version was less than they'd hoped.

However a DVD version of Exile was released in Germany a
couple months ago. (Beats me why they picked Germany to
be first.)

A friend at Ubi Soft told me that they *do* plan to release
Exile DVD in the U.S. too, but he couldn't say. Maybe they'll
announce a release date at the e3 game expo next week.

Jim

Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 27 of 31)
idlewild@[redacted].com <idlewild@[redacted].com>
Friday, 17-May-2002 18:09 GMT
On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 12:27 AM, Ken Norris (dialup) wrote:

> Well, for anyone who is really serious about 3D animation

I'm not absolute, but I think Cyan used Strata 3D for a lot of Myst's
scenes.

I chose Ray Dream Studio. New, it was about $400. Ray Dream was
combined with Infini-D to create Carerra Studio. A company called Eovia
is now developing Carerra. They offer a downloadable demo, and an
OSX-native Carerra is slated for release on June 5.

These 3D programs allow you to build "sets" complete with objects,
lights and cameras. They let you render single frames, or QuickTime
video animations. They require a lot of horsepower, especially when a
lot of transparency, reflection and lights are used in a set. I am
finding this out all too close at hand. Even after upping my G3 to
500Mhz, I have a "glass elevator ride" that is taking 20 minutes to
render a single frame. Interior "takes" are taking about 3-4 hours for
72 frames (800x428).

These applications allow you to create the images and video; it takes
HyperCard to stitch them together into something interactive. I use
transparent buttons on cards that display stills, and I "layer" movies
or use them for "card transitions". This is what the makers of Myst and
Riven (perhaps Exile also) were doing with their renders for these games.

I've always wanted to understand how to use hotspots in QuickTime, but
there has never been clear documentation about it. It is possible to
create VR movies in Ray Dream, but I'm unfamiliar with nodes and hot
spots right now to do anything interactive with them. I never wanted to
spend $400 for QuickTime VR Tools, which probably explains these
features for video.

Yours truly

R Charles Flickinger
www.iHUG.org


Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 28 of 31)
idlewild@[redacted].com <idlewild@[redacted].com>
Friday, 17-May-2002 18:34 GMT
I forgot to mention that Mac Addict's November 1998 CD included a
full-working version of Strata 3D 4.0 and Videoshop 3.0. I like
Videoshop lots more than iMovie. If you want to get into 3D without a
great up-front expense, let me know.

Yours truly

R Charles Flickinger
www.iHUG.org


Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 29 of 31)
Judy Perry <jperryl@[redacted].edu>
Friday, 17-May-2002 19:46 GMT
Charles,

I'll bite!

Judy

On Fri, 17 May 2002 idlewild@[redacted].comwrote:

>
> I forgot to mention that Mac Addict's November 1998 CD included a
> full-working version of Strata 3D 4.0 and Videoshop 3.0. I like
> Videoshop lots more than iMovie. If you want to get into 3D without a
> great up-front expense, let me know.
>
> Yours truly
>
> R Charles Flickinger
> www.iHUG.org
>
>
>
>
Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 30 of 31)
Ken Norris (dialup) <pixelbird@[redacted].net>
Saturday, 18-May-2002 18:09 GMT
on 5/17/02 11:09 AM, idlewild@[redacted].comat idlewild@[redacted].comwrote:

> I've always wanted to understand how to use hotspots in QuickTime, but
> there has never been clear documentation about it. It is possible to
> create VR movies in Ray Dream, but I'm unfamiliar with nodes and hot
> spots right now to do anything interactive with them. I never wanted to
> spend $400 for QuickTime VR Tools, which probably explains these
> features for video.
----------
Hi Charles,

I can't say for sure, but I've heard Apple's QT VR Tools is kind of old and
doesn't offer as much as some third party software. If I remember correctly,
Carrera was mentioned as one of the ones that exceeds Apple's VR Tools, but
path.

Ken N.


Re: [HC] Myst
(Msg 31 of 31)
stan soria <stan128@[redacted].com>
Sunday, 19-May-2002 03:06 GMT
idlewild@[redacted].com< idlewild@[redacted].com>wrote on 5/17/02:

>I've always wanted to understand how to use hotspots in QuickTime, but
>there has never been clear documentation about it. It is possible to
>create VR movies in Ray Dream, but I'm unfamiliar with nodes and hot
>spots right now to do anything interactive with them. I never wanted to
>spend $400 for QuickTime VR Tools, which probably explains these
>features for video.

Hi Charles,

I have been curious about this too and have managed to compile some
information over time, but have not found the time to explore it to any
depth. At any rate, here are a couple of things that might prove useful:

A great resource for some introductory info on QTVR (or practically
aanything QT) is any edition of Steve Gulie's book "QuickTime for the Web."

Here is a post from the QT list from my mail archive that mentions
different apps:
(Note: I have not tested these. :) )

-- begin post
> I'd like to make a QuickTime VR to assemble and navigate
>photos taken from the top of a local hill. Is there a cheap
>or free tool that is everyone's favorite for doing this?

Free: Helmut Dersch's Panorama Tools <http://www.fh-furtwangen.de/
~dersch/>
Cheap: VR Toolbox's VR Worx
Powerful: RealViz's Stitcher
Favorite: Apple's QuickTime VR Authoring Studio
Links: http://www.worldserver.com/turk/quicktimevr/QTVRlinks.html
-- end post

And just for fun (especially if you love the outdoors) here is an
incredible QTVR site:
<www.greenpeace.org/greatbear/intro.html>;

HTH,

Stan Soria
36N 121W
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mailto:stan128@[redacted].netcomcom
http://homepage.mac.com/rockyshores/36n121w/cmap.html
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