HyperCard Mailing List

Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 1 of 31)
nssvanb@[redacted].de <nssvanb@[redacted].de>
Saturday, 14-May-2011 00:22 GMT
On 13.05.2011, at 19:28, J. Landman Gay wrote:

>> Besides umlauts I desperately need , , , and in
>> order to write English (i.e. Old English) and Icelandic which is in
>> fact the same as Old Norse.
>>
>
> Those aren't unicode either, and I just pasted them into a LiveCode
> field without any issues. So I don't think you need to worry about the
> unicode issue at all


I always thought that , , , , and were Unicode characte
rs. We are on a Yahoo mailing list and in case Yahoo transforms the characters into something else I want to describe the characters in order to prevent any misunderstanding.

= This is the character called Thorn, see: <http://en.wikipedia.org/w
iki/Thorn_(letter)>

Go to the page and scroll down to "On computers" where they say: " and
are part of Unicode".

= This is the character eth; see here: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Eth>

Scroll down to "Computer input" where they give the Unicode value.


and = The letter Y with an acute accent. See: http://en.wiktionar
y.org/wiki/


I have just tested the trial version of SuperCard. All the above mentioned characters could NOT be created with SuperCard. Ill post a detailed repo
rt separately.


-- Anna


Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 2 of 31)
Rebecca Bettencourt <beckiergb@[redacted].com>
Saturday, 14-May-2011 00:43 GMT
Every character you can think of is a Unicode character. That's the
whole point of Unicode.

I think what Jacqueline meant to say is that eth and thorn are not
*specifically* Unicode characters, in the way that, say, Linear B
Syllabary and Mahjongg Tiles are (characters that AFAIK have only been
encoded in Unicode). There are plenty of other encodings that have eth
and thorn, particularly Latin-1 and CP1252.

-- Rebecca Bettencourt


On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 5:22 PM, <nssvanb@[redacted].de wrote:
>
> On 13.05.2011, at 19:28, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>>> Besides umlauts I desperately need , , , and in
>>> order to write English (i.e. Old English) and Icelandic which is in
>>> fact the same as Old Norse.
>>>
>>
>> Those aren't unicode either, and I just pasted them into a LiveCode
>> field without any issues. So I don't think you need to worry about the
>> unicode issue at all
>
>
> I always thought that , , , , and were Unicode charac
ters. We are on a Yahoo mailing list and in case Yahoo transforms the characters into something else I want to describe the characters in order to prevent any misunderstanding.
>
> = This is the character called Thorn, see: <http://en.wikipedia.org
/wiki/Thorn_(letter)>
>
> Go to the page and scroll down to "On computers" where they say: " and
are part of Unicode".
>
> = This is the character eth; see here: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wik
i/Eth>
>
> Scroll down to "Computer input" where they give the Unicode value.
>
>
> and = The letter Y with an acute accent. See: http://en.wiktion
ary.org/wiki/
>
>
> I have just tested the trial version of SuperCard. All the above mentioned characters could NOT be created with SuperCard. Ill post a detailed re
port separately.
>
>
> -- Anna
>
>
>
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 3 of 31)
nssvanb@[redacted].de <nssvanb@[redacted].de>
Saturday, 14-May-2011 02:12 GMT
On 14.05.2011, at 02:43, Rebecca Bettencourt wrote:

> Every character you can think of is a Unicode character. That's the
> whole point of Unicode.
>
> I think what Jacqueline meant to say is that eth and thorn are not
> *specifically* Unicode characters, in the way that, say, Linear B
> Syllabary and Mahjongg Tiles are (characters that AFAIK have only been
> encoded in Unicode).

Thanks for the clarification, Rebecca.


> There are plenty of other encodings that have eth
> and thorn, particularly Latin-1 and CP1252.


The problem prior to OS X was that thorn and eth were not available on Macs.. If you used Latin-1 on a *PC* there was no problem at all. But as soon asyou viewed the text on a *Mac* the characters were gone and had been replaced by the ligatures fl and fi. The "solution" was to run a localized script on the Mac which would alter the character table. Having done that you could see and print the said characters, but that would ONLY apply to your own Mac. If you wanted to view the text on another Mac you would have the same problem again.

Then OS X emerged where thorn and eth could be *seen* on the screen for thefirst time in the history of Macintosh computers. First only genuine Appleapplications, such as Mail and TextEdit, could create and display these characters. It took for example many years until MS Word on the Mac was able to display those characters. Many old programs (for example Eudora, SweetMail, MacSOUP, Mailsmith, Palm Desktop, Powermail, Now Up-To-Date, Emailer, Hogwasher (?) run under Snow Leopard but are still unable to display the characters Im talking about *ALTHOUGH* they otherwise support the Latin-1 (
= ISO 8859-1) standard.


Anna
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 4 of 31)
Uli Kusterer <Witness.of.TeachText@[redacted].net>
Tuesday, 17-May-2011 08:54 GMT
On 13.05.2011, at 19:28, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> In HC a "character" was always a character regardless of how many bytes
> it took to represent it. Unicode uses 2 bytes per character, Roman uses
> one.

No! Unicode uses 4 bytes per character (UTF32: 32 bits = 4 bytes). There are space-saving variants like UTF16 and UTF8, which *generally* use 2 resp. 1 byte for each common Latin character, but may use up to 5 bytes to represent more "rare" characters.

Which is what makes Unicode so difficult to get right. MacRoman had a simple 1-1 correspondence between characters and bytes, so HyperCard didn't really need to distinguish between raw binary data and text.

Cheers,
-- Uli Kusterer
"The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..."
http://www.zathras.de
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 5 of 31)
Uli Kusterer <Witness.of.TeachText@[redacted].net>
Tuesday, 17-May-2011 09:06 GMT
On 14.05.2011, at 02:22, nssvanb@[redacted].dewrote:
>> Those aren't unicode either, and I just pasted them into a LiveCode
>> field without any issues. So I don't think you need to worry about the
>> unicode issue at all
>
> I always thought that Þ, þ, Ð, ð, Ý and ý were Unicode characters. We are on a Yahoo mailing list and in case Yahoo transforms the characters into something else I want to describe the characters in order to prevent any misunderstanding.

You can't say a character "isn't unicode" really. The matter of the fact is, certain character sets (like ISO Latin, which is probably MetaCard's internal default, and thus LiveCode's, or MacRoman which is HyperCard's & SuperCard's on non-Japanese systems, or Unicode, which is "the hot shit" these days ;-) ) include certain characters.

Pretty much every character in MacRoman, ASCII (which is where MacRoman, ISO Latin and Unicode got their first 128 characters from), and ISO Latin is included *somewhere* in Unicode, it may just be represented with a different combination of bytes (e.g. the ¬ character used for line continuation in HyperCard is one byte in MacRoman, but two completely different bytes in UTF8). So I guess what Jacqui was trying to say is that you may not even *need* Unicode to get these characters. They're probably part of ISO Latin. I do remember a few of them also being in MacRoman.

Most of the apps have a demo (SuperCard: http://supercard.us/TV/index.html LC: http://www.runrev.com/downloads/). Why not just download the demos and paste in a sample text and see what happens?

Personally, I prefer SuperCard because it works more like my brain does, and is more simple like classic HyperCard. OTOH LC is cross-platform and has more of the modern things, but feels a bit Unixy and slightly less Mac-like than I would wish.

Cheers,
-- Uli Kusterer
"The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..."
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 6 of 31)
nssvanb@[redacted].de <nssvanb@[redacted].de>
Thursday, 19-May-2011 06:26 GMT
Hello Uli,

On 17.05.2011, at 11:06, Uli Kusterer wrote:

> On 14.05.2011, at 02:22, nssvanb@[redacted].dewrote:

>>> I always thought that , , , , and were Unicode char
acters.()
>
>
> Pretty much every character in MacRoman, ASCII () and ISO Latin is inc
luded *somewhere* in Unicode, it may just be represented with a different combination of bytes (e.g. the character used for line continuation in H
yperCard is one byte in MacRoman, but two completely different bytes in UTF8). So I guess what Jacqui was trying to say is that you may not even *need* Unicode to get these characters. They're probably part of ISO Latin. I doremember a few of them also being in MacRoman.
>

The characters we were originally talking about are , , , ,
and . None of these characters were ever part of MacRoman. They are par
t of ISO Latin-1 (ISO 8859-1), but the problem is that Mac OS 7, 8 and 9 NEVER FULLY SUPPORTED ISO 8859-1, the characters , , , , and
WERE NOT SUPPORTED, they were simply missing which made Macs the last c
hoice when it came to writing scholarly papers which involved linguistic analysis in the Germanic languages.


> Most of the apps have a demo (SuperCard: http://supercard.us/TV/index.html LC: http://www.runrev.com/downloads/). Why not just download the demos and paste in a sample text and see what happens?

That had already been done when you wrote your comment. :-) The result in SuperCard was negative. Jacqui suggested the reason might be the font which does matter in *Classic*, but *not* in Cocoa applications. In Cocoa applications the font does not matter anymore, it is the unicode support which is necessary in order to display thorn and eth (, ).

I asked Terry Bowman, "The Mac Doctor", to check for me whether thorn and eth can be written in SuperCard but he has not responded yet. Uli, couldn
t you do this for me, please? I ask you because I dont have any working
copy of SuperCard, the actual download trial version of SuperCard is not compatible with OS 10.6.7.


Vielen Dank im Voraus. :-)

-- Anna


Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 7 of 31)
KA4HJH <ka4hjh@[redacted].com>
Thursday, 19-May-2011 14:45 GMT
>I asked Terry Bowman, "The Mac Doctor", to check for me whether thorn and
>eth can be written in SuperCard but he has not responded yet.

Sorry about that, it got lost in the shuffle. What you actually asked me
was if it could be done in *Eudora* and the answer is no. I don't have
SuperCard so I can't try it.

I did, however, try out some non-English input methods and discovered that
"Norwegian Extended" allows you to type thorn and eth BUT the the wrong
characters appear in Eudora.

Then I gave TextEdit a try. Works like a charm. Obviously it uses Unicode.

--

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 8 of 31)
nssvanb@[redacted].de <nssvanb@[redacted].de>
Friday, 20-May-2011 10:59 GMT

On 19.05.2011, at 16:45, KA4HJH wrote:

> What you actually asked me
> was if it could be done in *Eudora* and the answer is no.


Thank you.

>
> I did, however, try out some non-English input methods and discovered that
> "Norwegian Extended" allows you to type thorn and eth

Also U.S. Extended.


Best wishes,
Anna
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 9 of 31)
nssvanb@[redacted].de <nssvanb@[redacted].de>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT
Hello everybody,

I love HyperCard and I still have valuable data stored in various stacks. Last December I bought a MacBook Pro 17'' which makes it impossible for me to go back to Classic. I have therefore decided to migrate from HyperCard to FileMaker Pro.

Tonight I fired up my old G4 and opened a stack that I wanted to export data from. I realized I had to tweak the export script a bit in order to get all the correct fields so I opened the script. To my surprise I couldn't edit anything because I always received the message: "Can't modify this script.."

The same thing happened with ALL scripts in ALL buttons, fields, backgrounds and stacks. I quit HC and started again with a double click on the HyperCard application itself, then I created a fresh, new stack, saved it and created a new button. When I wanted to add a script to that button I got the message again: "Can't modify this script." In short, no matter what I do I can't modify *any* scripts anymore.

What's going on here?

1) I don't think I put the command "cantModify" anywhere. I searched for it in all scripts including the home stack but couldn't find anything.

2) The stacks are not protected, and not locked. The HyperCard application is not locked.

3) I put the permissions to "Write and Read".

4) I still have 54 GB free space on the hard disk.

5) Since my G4 can only support an internal hard disk up to 128 GB I decided (2 years ago?) to use a LaCie 500 GB external drive as a startup disk and the HyperCard application and the stacks are on this external disk. I don't think that makes any difference, but I wanted to mention it anyway.


I hope someone can help me out of this nightmare.
Thanks in advance,

Anna
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 10 of 31)
J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT
On 5/11/11 7:52 PM, nssvanb@[redacted].dewrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> I love HyperCard and I still have valuable data stored in various
> stacks. Last December I bought a MacBook Pro 17'' which makes it
> impossible for me to go back to Classic. I have therefore decided to
> migrate from HyperCard to FileMaker Pro.
>
> Tonight I fired up my old G4 and opened a stack that I wanted to
> export data from. I realized I had to tweak the export script a bit
> in order to get all the correct fields so I opened the script. To my
> surprise I couldn't edit anything because I always received the
> message: "Can't modify this script."
>
> The same thing happened with ALL scripts in ALL buttons, fields,
> backgrounds and stacks. I quit HC and started again with a double
> click on the HyperCard application itself, then I created a fresh,
> new stack, saved it and created a new button. When I wanted to add a
> script to that button I got the message again: "Can't modify this
> script." In short, no matter what I do I can't modify *any* scripts
> anymore.
>
> What's going on here?

It might be the bug that prevented stacks from working if they were on
large hard drives (I think the limit was 2 gigs, if I remember right.)
Try moving your stacks to a small flash drive or any other volume that's
under that limit.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 11 of 31)
Colin Holgate <coiin@[redacted].net>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT
If you are able to show the message box, what happens if you type:

put the userlevel

?
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 12 of 31)
nssvanb@[redacted].de <nssvanb@[redacted].de>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT
On 12.05.2011, at 03:50, Colin Holgate wrote:

> If you are able to show the message box, what happens if you type:
>
> put the userlevel
>
> ?



Hello Colin,

I forgot to mention that the userlevel is 5. The drive was too big as Jacqueline already said. I followed her advice and now everything is OK.


Best wishes to all of you
and
thanks again


Anna
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 13 of 31)
nssvanb@[redacted].de <nssvanb@[redacted].de>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT

On 12.05.2011, at 03:02, J. Landman Gay wrote:


>> What's going on here?
>
> It might be the bug that prevented stacks from working if they were on
> large hard drives (I think the limit was 2 gigs, if I remember right.)
> Try moving your stacks to a small flash drive or any other volume that's
> under that limit.



Oh yeah yippee, yippee yiay! That works. You made my day!
Thank you soooooooo much!!!


Anna
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 14 of 31)
Colin Holgate <coiin@[redacted].net>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT
It was good that she spotted that one, but I had got the impression that you fired up a G4 with the stack on it, which implied that it worked once! Had the drive grown in size?


On May 11, 2011, at 10:31 PM, nssvanb@[redacted].dewrote:

> I forgot to mention that the userlevel is 5. The drive was too big as Jacqueline already said. I followed her advice and now everything is OK.
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 15 of 31)
J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT
On 5/11/11 9:56 PM, Colin Holgate wrote:
> It was good that she spotted that one, but I had got the impression
> that you fired up a G4 with the stack on it, which implied that it
> worked once! Had the drive grown in size?

She mentioned that she'd moved her stacks to a larger, external drive.
That's what clued me in. I assume she hadn't tried to edit them after that.

I only remembered the bug because it bit me so bad way back when. A
2-gig drive was humongous, nobody would ever need that much space, you know.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 16 of 31)
nssvanb@[redacted].de <nssvanb@[redacted].de>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT
On 12.05.2011, at 04:56, Colin Holgate wrote:

> I had got the impression that you fired up a G4 with the stack on it, which implied that it worked once! Had the drive grown in size?

Yes, because the G4 originally had a very small internal hard disk when I bought it back in 2008. Later I began to use a 500 GB external drive as a startup disk which was fine. I guess I was not programming after I got the big external drive and thats the reason I didnt notice the limitation w
ith HyperCard. The stacks can be opened and used, but scripts cannot be altered. Thats what I discovered today. The solution was to put the applica
tion and the stacks on a flash drive.
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 17 of 31)
nssvanb@[redacted].de <nssvanb@[redacted].de>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT
On 12.05.2011, at 04:52, michael wrote:

> You say you have decided to migrate to FileMaker. Have you thought about migrating to Revolution?

I have heard about this possibility but I have not had time to think much about it until now.

I read somewhere that Revolution is very expensive (several hundred dollars?) and if thats true I cant afford it.

What are my options? I have also heard about MetaCard and SuperCard and when I search for Revolution I find RunRev and LiveCode. This is all rather confusing, and I am not willing to spend awful lot of money and time on alternative products.

Does anyone have a direct link to Revolution?

And by the way, what is the exact name of this program? Is it "Revolution" or maybe RunRev? Excuse my ignorance.


> Are you still
> programing or just running the stack.


Im now using OS 10.6.7 and I have realized that jumping back and forth b
etween OS X and OS 9 is highly counterproductive for me so I guess I have to give up HyperCard and look for an alternative. Most of the stacks are a combination of a dictionary and a Vocabulary Trainer. I use them systematically to practice and keep track of new words I come across in various languages. I make light changes here and there every now and then if I have the feeling I need new features and that means I am in fact continuously improving them according to my own needs.

On the European mainland the term "Vocabulary Trainer" is widely used. Whatis the common term for this in the USA?


Anna
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 18 of 31)
Colin Holgate <coiin@[redacted].net>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT
It's now called LiveCode, and the cheapest version that will do what you want costs $99. You can do a trial download too. Start here to see the buying options:

http://www.runrev.com/store/wizard/

and look over the main site for other information:

http://www.runrev.com/


On May 12, 2011, at 5:17 AM, nssvanb@[redacted].dewrote:

> And by the way, what is the exact name of this program? Is it "Revolution" or maybe RunRev? Excuse my ignorance.
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 19 of 31)
Paul Foraker <paul.foraker@[redacted].com>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 2:17 AM, <nssvanb@[redacted].de wrote:

> Im now using OS 10.6.7 and I have realized that jumping back and forth
> between OS X and OS 9 is highly counterproductive for me so I guess I have
> to give up HyperCard and look for an alternative. Most of the stacks are a
> combination of a dictionary and a Vocabulary Trainer. I use them
> systematically to practice and keep track of new words I come across in
> various languages. I make light changes here and there every now and thenif
> I have the feeling I need new features and that means I am in fact
> continuously improving them according to my own needs.
>

Unless you are already a FileMaker expert, it will be much easier to move to
LiveCode. You might be able to simply open your HyperCard stacks in LiveCode
and convert them to LiveCode stacks. Jacque Gay has written an excellent
tutorial on making such conversions:

http://hyperactivesw.com/mctutorial/rrtutorialtoc.html


>
> On the European mainland the term "Vocabulary Trainer" is widely used. What
> is the common term for this in the USA?
>

That term works here, too, but Americans are notorious for not learning
'foreign' languages -- very different from the European example.

-- Paul


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 20 of 31)
Catherine Kunicki <marsvi0let@[redacted].com>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT
I tried to put "Hypertalk" down on Facebook as "Languages Spoken" on my profile, but the interface wouldn't let me. In other news, I haven't had to dust off my high school French since the seventies.

; )

Catherine

On May 12, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Paul Foraker wrote:

> That term works here, too, but Americans are notorious for not learning
> 'foreign' languages -- very different from the European example.
>
> -- Paul
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 21 of 31)
J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT
On 5/12/11 4:17 AM, nssvanb@[redacted].dewrote:

> What are my options? I have also heard about MetaCard and SuperCard
> and when I search for Revolution I find RunRev and LiveCode. This is
> all rather confusing, and I am not willing to spend awful lot of
> money and time on alternative products.

Just to fill in: the original engine was called MetaCard. The company
was purchased by Runtime Revolution who renamed the product Revolution.
Later they changed the company name to RunRev and renamed the engine to
LiveCode. It's all the same product, though very much matured now and
improved over the original MetaCard engine.

> Does anyone have a direct link to Revolution?

LiveCode, as it is now called, is here: <http://www.runrev.com>;.


> Im now using OS 10.6.7 and I have realized that jumping back and
> forth between OS X and OS 9 is highly counterproductive for me so I
> guess I have to give up HyperCard and look for an alternative.

SuperCard will open your stacks and convert them, but since it is
Mac-only and my work requires cross-platform compatibility I use
LiveCode. I am also not feeling too secure about SuperCard's long-term
viability, though they've been going for a long time and don't show any
signs of stopping.

For the most part, you can open HC stacks directly in LiveCode and about
90% of it will translate directly over without any changes. There are a
few things that will error because LiveCode handles certain features
differently; the tutorial Paul mentioned covers those.

Download the free 30-day trial and spend some time tinkering, I think
you'll be surprised. One trick I forgot to mention in the tutorial is
that before you open the stack in LiveCode, click the "Errors" icon in
the LiveCode toolbar so that it is bolded. That suppresses error
messages so you won't be bombarded with errors while you're doing the
conversion. When you're ready to run the stack in LiveCode, turn off
error suppression so that you are advised of script issues again.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 22 of 31)
nssvanb@[redacted].de <nssvanb@[redacted].de>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT
On 12.05.2011, at 17:39, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> Just to fill in: the original engine was called MetaCard. The company
> was purchased by Runtime Revolution who renamed the product Revolution.
> Later they changed the company name to RunRev and renamed the engine to
> LiveCode. It's all the same product, though very much matured now and
> improved over the original MetaCard engine.


Thank you for this clarification. This helps me a lot.

>
> I am also not feeling too secure about SuperCard's long-term
> viability, though they've been going for a long time and don't show any
> signs of stopping.

This is an important point. Does SuperCard have many active users? More than LiveCode?


>
> For the most part, you can open HC stacks directly in LiveCode and about
> 90% of it will translate directly over without any changes.


Also the layouts? What makes my HC stacks valuable for me is the layout: the feeling that I am working with *cards* (as a student I used to work a lotwith paper file cards). I also like being able to have a number of *hidden* fields (something I cant do in FileMaker.)


Will umlauts be converted correctly into LiveCode and SuperCard?

Do both LiveCode and SuperCard support Unicode?


>
> Download the free 30-day trial and spend some time tinkering, I think
> you'll be surprised.

I am already surprised and eager to try it out. :-)


Anna


Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 23 of 31)
nssvanb@[redacted].de <nssvanb@[redacted].de>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:23 GMT
On 12.05.2011, at 16:41, Paul Foraker wrote:

>
> Unless you are already a FileMaker expert, it will be much easier to moveto
> LiveCode.

I have used FileMaker for storing Data that I dont need to *learn* by he
art, such as bibliographic references, diaries, bookkeeping and the like. HyperCard was ideal for stuff that I needed to learn by heart.


> You might be able to simply open your HyperCard stacks in LiveCode
> and convert them to LiveCode stacks. Jacque Gay has written an excellent
> tutorial on making such conversions:
>
> http://hyperactivesw.com/mctutorial/rrtutorialtoc.html


This is great news for me and this will keep me busy for quite a few days now.


-- Anna


Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 24 of 31)
nssvanb@[redacted].de <nssvanb@[redacted].de>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:24 GMT

On 12.05.2011, at 17:16, Catherine Kunicki wrote:

> I haven't had to dust off my high school French since the seventies.

How about subscribing to a French Macintosh mailing list?


Anna
Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 25 of 31)
nssvanb@[redacted].de <nssvanb@[redacted].de>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:24 GMT
On 12.05.2011, at 14:40, Colin Holgate wrote:

> It's now called LiveCode, and the cheapest version that will do what you want costs $99. You can do a trial download too.

Good to know that it is now called LiveCode (and not Revolution) and from where to start. Ive just taken a short look at the pages you mentioned an
d they give a few examples from the programming language. It strongly resembles HyperTalk which I think is great.

Thanks for the links.


Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 26 of 31)
Peter Derks <peterderks@[redacted].de>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:24 GMT
@ J. Landman Gay

> It might be the bug that prevented stacks from working if they were on
> large hard drives (I think the limit was 2 gigs, if I remember right.)
> Try moving your stacks to a small flash drive or any other volume that's
> under that limit.
>

I use HyperCard without any problems on an external 500 GB hard disk at my Mac G4 MDD 2 x 1.25Ghz.
I had to learn to put Mac OSX and Mac OS9 onto different drives; either I boot Mac OS9 from the ext. HD or Mac OSX 10.4 (switching to Classic) from the int. HD.
I will never miss "my" treasure of HyperCard (some GB)

Peter



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 27 of 31)
J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:24 GMT
On 5/12/11 7:15 PM, Peter Derks wrote:

> I use HyperCard without any problems on an external 500 GB hard disk
> at my Mac G4 MDD 2 x 1.25Ghz. I had to learn to put Mac OSX and Mac
> OS9 onto different drives; either I boot Mac OS9 from the ext. HD or
> Mac OSX 10.4 (switching to Classic) from the int. HD. I will never
> miss "my" treasure of HyperCard (some GB)

The bug was fixed by 2.4.1 (or maybe a little before that.) The OP's
problem probably occured with an earlier version.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 28 of 31)
J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:24 GMT
On 5/12/11 6:58 PM, nssvanb@[redacted].dewrote:
>
> Does SuperCard have many active users?
> More than LiveCode?

Neither company releases that data so it is impossible to say. I do know
that LiveCode is gaining quite a lot of popularity and the press has
been reporting on it lately. Their recent developer conference was well
attended.

Disclosure: I do part-time work for RunRev and have been a strong
supporter for years, so I'm biased. You should probably take that under
consideration and if you are interested in SuperCard, get more opinions.

>> For the most part, you can open HC stacks directly in LiveCode and
>> about 90% of it will translate directly over without any changes.
>
>
> Also the layouts? What makes my HC stacks valuable for me is the
> layout: the feeling that I am working with *cards* (as a student I
> used to work a lot with paper file cards). I also like being able to
> have a number of *hidden* fields (something I cant do in
> FileMaker.)

Layouts, card/stack metaphor, language, and all the syntax you are used
to are fully supported and work identically (though LiveCode has a
better way to store data than hidden fields, but those still work.) When
you open the stack in LiveCode it will look the same as HC except for
the modern appearance of the objects, which use native OS controls. The
things you'll need to learn are the additions to the language and the
new capabilities if you want to use them. LiveCode has over 2,000
keywords (compared to HC's 400 or so) and many times more capability.
You can learn those slowly as you need them. All the syntax you already
know will be the same and for the most part will behave the same. The
tutorial can show you what's different.

One warning: it is sometimes harder for HC converts to come to grips
with LiveCode because it is so very similar to HC in so many ways, that
they expect everything to be the same -- and it isn't. Expect to do some
unlearning. Ask DunbarX about that. :)

> Will umlauts be converted correctly into LiveCode and SuperCard?

I don't use SuperCard any more, but I'm sure it does. LiveCode does.

> Do both LiveCode and SuperCard support Unicode?

LiveCode's implementation of unicode is going to be revised in a future
release to act more as HC's did; for now it takes a few steps to set up.
Support for unicode in menus requires some care. I believe SuperCard's
already works as you're used to.

But I don't think umlauts are generally unicode, are they? German isn't
a unicode language. French isn't unicode either. Chinese and Russian are.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 29 of 31)
nssvanb@[redacted].de <nssvanb@[redacted].de>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:24 GMT
On 13.05.2011, at 04:14, J. Landman Gay wrote:

>
>> Do both LiveCode and SuperCard support Unicode?
>
> LiveCode's implementation of unicode is going to be revised in a future
> release to act more as HC's did

I have HyperCard 2.2 and that version does not support Unicode, so Im no
t sure what you mean by "act more as HCs did".


> now it takes a few steps to set up.
> Support for unicode in menus requires some care.

Why does it have to be "set up"? I thought programs either have Unicode support or they dont, like for example Apple Mail (which has it) and Eudora
which does not have it (I mean the good old Eudora 6.2.4).


>
> But I don't think umlauts are generally unicode, are they?

No they arent. Besides umlauts I desperately need , , , and
in order to write English (i.e. Old English) and Icelandic which is in fact the same as Old Norse.


Anna


Re: [HC] Can't modify this script
(Msg 30 of 31)
J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com>
Sunday, 12-Jun-2011 18:24 GMT
On 5/13/11 9:27 AM, nssvanb@[redacted].dewrote:
>
> On 13.05.2011, at 04:14, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>>
>>> Do both LiveCode and SuperCard support Unicode?
>>
>> LiveCode's implementation of unicode is going to be revised in a
>> future release to act more as HC's did
>
> I have HyperCard 2.2 and that version does not support Unicode, so
> Im not sure what you mean by "act more as HCs did".

In HC a "character" was always a character regardless of how many bytes
it took to represent it. Unicode uses 2 bytes per character, Roman uses
one. HC did all the translation for you. This is what will happen when
unicode is rewritten for LiveCode. At present, your scripts need to
calculate the byte offset manually if you need to do any text parsing
work in unicode via scripts.

>> now it takes a few steps to set up. Support for unicode in menus
>> requires some care.
>
> Why does it have to be "set up"? I thought programs either have
> Unicode support or they dont, like for example Apple Mail (which has
> it) and Eudora which does not have it (I mean the good old Eudora
> 6.2.4).

Displaying unicode text in fields is fairly straightforward, but you
need to set some field properties first in order to let the engine know
the content should be displayed as unicode; the default is to display as
one of the Roman character sets. Depending on the language, you may also
need to use some built-in functions to translate the text string to/from
UTF8 to UTF16. In HC you didn't have to worry about any of that. So
while LiveCode does support unicode, it isn't as straightforward to use
as HC was. This will be fixed though.

>> But I don't think umlauts are generally unicode, are they?
>
> No they arent. Besides umlauts I desperately need , , , and
in
> order to write English (i.e. Old English) and Icelandic which is in
> fact the same as Old Norse.
>

Those aren't unicode either, and I just pasted them into a LiveCode
field without any issues. So I don't think you need to worry about the
unicode issue at all, it's moot for what you want to do. Your stacks
will come over to LiveCode without any text issues.

Of course the best way to see is just to download the trial and experiment.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



(Note: 1 duplicate message omitted.)
HyperCard® and HyperTalk™ remain trademarks of Apple, Inc.; other trademarked products and terms mentioned in this archive are the property of their respective trademark holders. Individual messages remain the intellectual property of their respective authors.