HyperCard Mailing List

I recently bought 8 second hand G3 macs (various models) for $200 to replace some of my business G3s that had broken down. I have initialised & repaired the hard drives and loaded OS 9.2.2 on each. Some perform my Hypercard business stacks fine. Others e.g. an iBook don't like Hypercard much at all.... I am getting quits.freezes and various alerts. Is there any reason for this variation in performance between different models, same chip, same software?

Hi John,

Yes, there are a few incompatibilities. One is that 9.2.2 is not meant to run as the main operating system. It is supposed to run in Classic, with Mac OS X as a host operating system. You might want to use a slightly older version of Mac OS 9.

Another compatibility is between remote access and HC. If you disable all remote access components, HC might be more stable.

Some of the older iMacs tend to become instable after many years. That's probably why you could get them for little money. iBooks tend to get problems with their video processors. That's also a reason why people want to get rid of them for little money.

If you are running Mac OS X with 9.2.2 as a guest system, you need to run HyperCard from the same partition as the one on which Mac OS X is installed.

Which version of HC are you using? I believe there was a problem with HC 2.3 and... speech maybe? I don't remember exactly.

Let us know how things go.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
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On 30 okt 2011, at 02:26, john wrote:

> I recently bought 8 second hand G3 macs (various models) for $200 to replace some of my business G3s that had broken down. I have initialised & repaired the hard drives and loaded OS 9.2.2 on each. Some perform my Hypercard business stacks fine. Others e.g. an iBook don't like Hypercard much at all... I am getting quits.freezes and various alerts. Is there any reason for this variation in performance between different models, same chip, same software?
>

On 30.10.2011, at 02:26, john wrote:
> I recently bought 8 second hand G3 macs (various models) for $200 to replace some of my business G3s that had broken down. I have initialised & repaired the hard drives and loaded OS 9.2.2 on each. Some perform my Hypercard business stacks fine. Others e.g. an iBook don't like Hypercard much at all... I am getting quits.freezes and various alerts. Is there any reason for this variation in performance between different models, same chip, same software?


Mark has many much more likely reasons, but one thing to also consider is QuickTime version. I don't remember details, but I had QuickTime 3.0 or so crash on me a lot with HyperCard. Might have been inside a SheepShaver emulator, though.

Cheers,
-- Uli Kusterer
"The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..."
http://www.zathras.de

On Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:43 pm ((PDT)), "Mark Schonewille" m.schonewille@[redacted].comecognoompje wrote:

>Yes, there are a few incompatibilities. One is that 9.2.2 is not meant to run as the main operating system. It is supposed to run in Classic, with Mac OS X as a host operating system. You might want to use a slightly older version of Mac OS 9.

I never heard this before and in fact currently run 9.2.2 as the main OS on several mission-critical live-audio G4 machines and find it very stable and reliable. Never have I had a problem with Hypercard with this OS version on any machine. I ran 9.2.2 for years on every machine I used - many G4s and a couple of G3s too. But I never had an iBook.

BTW I put 1GHz CPU upgrades in all my G4s slower than 900 MHz and for anyone still running OS 9 I think this is a great way to go. I've got an 8-core i7 Mac Pro running Snow Leopard and the only thing that feels slower on the G4s is disk access. What a pleasure it is to run Word 5 on a 1Ghz G4!

Only the very last generation of G4s doesn't boot 0S 9.

Emmett,

Mac OS 9.2.2 was released to ensure compatibility between Mac OS 9 and the Classic environment on G3 and G4 Macs.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

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On 30 okt 2011, at 15:21, Emmett Gray wrote:

> On Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:43 pm ((PDT)), "Mark Schonewille" m.schonewille@[redacted].comecognoompje wrote:
>
>> Yes, there are a few incompatibilities. One is that 9.2.2 is not meant to run as the main operating system. It is supposed to run in Classic, with Mac OS X as a host operating system. You might want to use a slightly older version of Mac OS 9.
>
> I never heard this before and in fact currently run 9.2.2 as the main OS on several mission-critical live-audio G4 machines and find it very stable and reliable. Never have I had a problem with Hypercard with this OS version on any machine. I ran 9.2.2 for years on every machine I used - many G4s and a couple of G3s too. But I never had an iBook.
>
> BTW I put 1GHz CPU upgrades in all my G4s slower than 900 MHz and for anyone still running OS 9 I think this is a great way to go. I've got an 8-core i7 Mac Pro running Snow Leopard and the only thing that feels slower on the G4s is disk access. What a pleasure it is to run Word 5 on a 1Ghz G4!
>
> Only the very last generation of G4s doesn't boot 0S 9.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>Yes, there are a few incompatibilities. One is that 9.2.2 is not
>meant to run as the main operating system. It is supposed to run in
>Classic, with Mac OS X as a host operating system. You might want to
>use a slightly older version of Mac OS 9.

For years I ran HC under Classic on a Silver Door G4 under 10.4.11. I
could also boot 9.2.2 on that machine, which I did on accasion. I now
run HC on a PowerBook G4 under 10.4.11. I never tried to boot 9.2.2
on that machine.

>Another compatibility is between remote access and HC. If you
>disable all remote access components, HC might be more stable.

I regularly communicate between the PowerBook and my new iMac through
a Public Folder and a Drop Box.

On both G4s I kept the HC application and all stacks on a separate
volume. Doing otherwise caused problems, the nature of which I no
longer remember.

Mow I'm trying to get SheepShaver to run on my new iMac, but that's
for another topic.

Art Evans

Art,

The fact that it works for you doesn't mean that it is supposed to work for everyone. I made suggestions based on my experience and some background knowledge.

Before anyone else starts disagreeing with me: feel free to disagree, but that doesn't mean that my suggestion are not worth a try.

I'd like to know whether my suggestions help John rather than whether or not everybody always agrees.

Now, instead of disagreeing, you'd better try to think of more possible reasons why John might have some trouble with HC on his Macs!!!

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

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On 30 okt 2011, at 16:27, Arthur Evans Jr wrote:

>> Yes, there are a few incompatibilities. One is that 9.2.2 is not
>> meant to run as the main operating system. It is supposed to run in
>> Classic, with Mac OS X as a host operating system. You might want to
>> use a slightly older version of Mac OS 9.
>
> For years I ran HC under Classic on a Silver Door G4 under 10.4.11. I
> could also boot 9.2.2 on that machine, which I did on accasion. I now
> run HC on a PowerBook G4 under 10.4.11. I never tried to boot 9.2.2
> on that machine.
>
>> Another compatibility is between remote access and HC. If you
>> disable all remote access components, HC might be more stable.
>
> I regularly communicate between the PowerBook and my new iMac through
> a Public Folder and a Drop Box.
>
> On both G4s I kept the HC application and all stacks on a separate
> volume. Doing otherwise caused problems, the nature of which I no
> longer remember.
>
> Mow I'm trying to get SheepShaver to run on my new iMac, but that's
> for another topic.
>
> Art Evans
>
>
>

As Mark mentioned, 9.2.2 was mainly for OSX compatibility, but the download page says this:

"The Mac OS 9.2.2 Update improves Classic application compatibility in Mac OS X and delivers updated support for Macintosh systems that are based on the PowerPC G3 or G4 processor."

So, there may have been some improvements that helped the G3 in the iBook. It could be worth rerunning the 9.2.2 updater, in the hope that something, maybe even QuickTime as someone mentioned, needs fixing. The updater is here:

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1293?viewlocale=en_US

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It could easily be that some of the used/cheap computers are just intermittently flakey. Traces on the
motherboard that have oxidized over time and failed ( was a soda ever spilled into that laptop? )
RAM that was never perfect, other chips failing.

Unless you have a known good example of a particular machine, I think you can't rule out a weird
hardware issue. Old/failing hard drives can be a problem too.

I tend to run HC in SheepShaver these days. Very fast on modern hardware.

Rory



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:41 am ((PDT)), "Mark Schonewille" m.schonewille@[redacted].comecognoompje wrote:

>The fact that it works for you doesn't mean that it is supposed to work for everyone. I made suggestions based on my experience and some background knowledge.
>
>Before anyone else starts disagreeing with me: feel free to disagree, but that doesn't mean that my suggestion are not worth a try.
>

Well, I really don't think for the OP that using a version of OS earlier than 9.2.2 is indeed worth a try, based on my experience and the experience of most of my colleagues in the audio world who ran and still run mission-critical applications booting 9.2.2. And I went through the whole sequence of OS 9 versions and had I seen the slightest degradation between, say 9.2.1 and 9.2.2 I can assure you that I would have retrograded.

I would agree with another poster who said to look elsewhere for the trouble - i.e. bad hardware.

Well, I think you are wrong. I am not saying the 9.2.2 won't work,
I'm saying that if it doesn't work, you might want to try an older
version.

--

Economy-x-Talk
Consultancy and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
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Op 31-okt-2011, om 15:50 heeft Emmett Gray het volgende geschreven:

> On Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:41 am ((PDT)), "Mark Schonewille"
> m.schonewille@[redacted].comecognoompje wrote:
>
>> The fact that it works for you doesn't mean that it is supposed to
>> work for everyone. I made suggestions based on my experience and
>> some background knowledge.
>>
>> Before anyone else starts disagreeing with me: feel free to
>> disagree, but that doesn't mean that my suggestion are not worth a
>> try.
>>
>
> Well, I really don't think for the OP that using a version of OS
> earlier than 9.2.2 is indeed worth a try, based on my experience
> and the experience of most of my colleagues in the audio world who
> ran and still run mission-critical applications booting 9.2.2. And
> I went through the whole sequence of OS 9 versions and had I seen
> the slightest degradation between, say 9.2.1 and 9.2.2 I can assure
> you that I would have retrograded.
>
> I would agree with another poster who said to look elsewhere for
> the trouble - i.e. bad hardware.
>
>
>

On Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:04 am ((PDT)), "Mark Schonewille" m.schonewille@[redacted].comecognoompje wrote:
>
>Well, I think you are wrong. I am not saying the 9.2.2 won't work,
>I'm saying that if it doesn't work, you might want to try an older
>version.
>
Well that can be a nasty undertaking, a re-install of an earlier version (which one?) followed maybe by upgrades. That's assuming the OP has the software and the inclination to try. Rereading the original post, it was kind of implied that he had been running 9.2.2 on his prior hardware too. I have a wealth of experience that tells me there's nothing at all "wrong" with 9.2.2. If those were my systems, I wouldn't bother changing the OS as a cure for some intermittent problem.

And you can't convince me I'm wrong without some evidence. I went looking for some. Please visit this page http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1835 which has a complete list of machines and operating systems that run on them. You will find that, in fact, on certain computers, 9.2.2 is the only officially endorsed OS, and this OS is endorsed on every g3 and g4 machine that runs OS 9 (except the original PowerBook G3 which also doesn't run 9.2.1).

Emmett,

I really have no interest in convincing you. I tried to help John and hope he will be able to decide what to do after reading all suggestions posted to this list.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

Become our partner in sales http://qery.us/16r Start selling Color Converter today. 20% commission!

On 1 nov 2011, at 21:22, Emmett Gray wrote:

> Well that can be a nasty undertaking, a re-install of an earlier version (which one?) followed maybe by upgrades. That's assuming the OP has the software and the inclination to try. Rereading the original post, it was kind of implied that he had been running 9.2.2 on his prior hardware too. I have a wealth of experience that tells me there's nothing at all "wrong" with 9..2.2. If those were my systems, I wouldn't bother changing the OS as a cure for some intermittent problem.
>
> And you can't convince me I'm wrong without some evidence. I went looking for some. Please visit this page http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1835 which has a complete list of machines and operating systems that run on them. You will find that, in fact, on certain computers, 9.2.2 is the only officially endorsed OS, and this OS is endorsed on every g3 and g4 machine that runs OS 9 (except the original PowerBook G3 which also doesn't run 9.2.1).
>
>