HyperCard Mailing List

Gene,

I want to state plainly for you the disdain I have for companies and representatives of people marketing products such as Stemtech. Stem cell technology is cutting edge and extremely promising. People and organizations which latch on to such a technology strictly for its name appeal and offer unsubstantiated if not out right false and misleading hope to others for profit are not good people in my book. I am not saying that you are immoral, you could very well believe everything Stemtech promotes 100%. But when I see people advertising such product, I have to do my commercial.

I know this post isn't the advertised tone of this group, but I remember people wax elegantly about the immorality of Steve Jobs and et al at Apple years ago, so maybe it is just the tone when we have nothing left to complain about. :)

Michael

On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net wrote:

> Well, thank you for your unbiased opinion. I dare not quibble with your if/then logic, i.e. " IF ...believe in ` Stemtech malarky`,THEN Hypercard is more than adequate...business`. :- ) I find it dificult to counter this steel trap logic. I`m inadequate to the task of following it. :-) I`ll try harder.
> Cheers
> Gene Henley
> Who remains
> At your service
>
>
>
>
> From: Michael Mays
> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [HC]
>
>
>
> Gene,
>
> It is not a viable program because the program is dead. If the people writing emulators stop and/or the old hardware it is running on dies and cannot be repaired, that is it. But IMO if you believe that Stemtech malarky then I think HyperCard is more than adequate for your business.
>
> Michael
>
> On Oct 31, 2012, at 9:07 AM, Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net wrote:
>
>> Tim, I am not an accomplished programmer,nor do I strive to be one.
>> I merely want to know if HC is a viable productive addition to my
>> business tools."Proof of pudding."
>> I have a small in home MLM business. My CODB is carefully
>> analyzed. I do not know if HC has any fervent believers that
>> also input improvements to it. My task is to find out.
>> This is not a hobby. I`m not looking at it simply "Because it`s there."
>> I intend to use it,but only if it satisfies my business requirements.
>> Cheers
>> Gene Henley
>>
>> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com ( Now in Japan!)
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "Tim Selander" <selander@[redacted].attne.jp>
>> To: <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:39 PM
>> Subject: Re: [HC]
>>
>>
>>> Hi Gene,
>>>
>>> Those are great machines to run HC on. (Well, I'm not sure what
>>> an MDD is, but the others are good!)
>>>
>>> If you are looking to make software solutions for your personal
>>> or your company's use on those machines, HC is great -- go for
>>> it! If you want to make software to release/sell to other people,
>>> then HC will probably disappoint you.
>>>
>>> Tim Selander
>>> Tokyo, Japan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/31/12 6:04 AM, Gene Henley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a Quicksolver G4 Tiger,a Power PC 7200 with external SCSI burner,
>>>> an all-in one with OS 9.2,and
>>>> a MDD G4 Tiger.
>>>> Additionally, I have standby Dells with XP. Is there hope while there is
>>>> life?
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Gene H
>>>>
>>>> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com
>>>>
>>>> From: Alain Farmer
>>>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [HC]
>>>>
>>>> Hi Gene,
>>>>
>>>> If you have an old-mac and/or have an emulator (ex: sheepshaver), then
>>>> you can still use HyperCard usefully.
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise, the scriptors that I know [of] are using MetaCard or RunRev..
>>>>
>>>> In both cases, you would/will use these if you want to create desktop
>>>> applications.
>>>>
>>>> The Web is another animal.
>>>>
>>>> What Dan and other(s) are imagining (if I have grasped this thread
>>>> accurately) is the power and simplicity of HyperCard/HyperTalk if/when
>>>> the become web-native. Dynamic-HTML (HTML, CSS, Javascript) are still
>>>> too complicated for most people.
>>>>
>>>> Or perhaps this is just me plugging an old idea that I have not
>>>> accomplished yet, e.g. wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to author and
>>>> script the web as easily as it was to author and script HyperCard
>>>> stacks? UserLevels 1 (browse) and 2 (editing content) are a cinch. With
>>>> userLevel 3, we could co-author graphics; some tools exist in this
>>>> regard. UserLevel 4 (authoring) is do-able; I have seen many web-based
>>>> wysiwyg interface-building kits that allow drag & drop, etc. UserLevel 5
>>>> (scripting) is still R&D-ish; there are some tools for converting xTalk
>>>> into JavaScript. While I agree that JavaScript is no as easy as
>>>> HyperTalk, as a user of both I see the mappings rather
>>>> straightforwardly. I've not abandonned the project, but clearly it is
>>>> too-big for me to pull-off solo.
>>>>
>>>> Welcome to the HyperCard community, Gene. It's still alive! ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Alain
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net<mailto:mhenley2%40verizon.net>>
>>>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:44:29 PM
>>>> Subject: [HC]
>>>>
>>>> Thank you. I`ll not go through a series of "if/thens"
>>>> To the point. I have acquired a bunch of HC books,cd`s,and floppies.
>>>> I try to approach anything new to me as "one bite at a time",starting
>>>> from basics.
>>>> This will not be a hobby. I hope the result will be useful. I have a
>>>> very small
>>>> in home business. IF HC has little productive use,and IF there is little
>>>> hope
>>>> for fine tuning to productive usefulness,THEN I wonder why I expend the
>>>> energy.
>>>> On the other hand,perhaps the nay sayers are wrong.
>>>> You have my attention.
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Gene H
>>>>

Duly noted. I have not opposed your doing your commercial. I have no intention to do so.
Thus, I do not express,nor feel disdain. Have at it. :-) I`m on your side. Hoorah for free enterprise!
With sincere respect,
Cheers
Gene Henley

www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com


From: Michael Mays
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [HC] HC]



Gene,

I want to state plainly for you the disdain I have for companies and representatives of people marketing products such as Stemtech. Stem cell technology is cutting edge and extremely promising. People and organizations which latch on to such a technology strictly for its name appeal and offer unsubstantiated if not out right false and misleading hope to others for profit are not good people in my book. I am not saying that you are immoral, you could very well believe everything Stemtech promotes 100%. But when I see people advertising such product, I have to do my commercial.

I know this post isn't the advertised tone of this group, but I remember people wax elegantly about the immorality of Steve Jobs and et al at Apple years ago, so maybe it is just the tone when we have nothing left to complain about. :)

Michael

On Oct 31, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net wrote:

> Well, thank you for your unbiased opinion. I dare not quibble with your if/then logic, i.e. " IF ...believe in ` Stemtech malarky`,THEN Hypercard is more than adequate...business`. :- ) I find it dificult to counter this steel trap logic. I`m inadequate to the task of following it. :-) I`ll try harder.
> Cheers
> Gene Henley
> Who remains
> At your service
>
>
>
>
> From: Michael Mays
> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [HC]
>
>
>
> Gene,
>
> It is not a viable program because the program is dead. If the people writing emulators stop and/or the old hardware it is running on dies and cannot be repaired, that is it. But IMO if you believe that Stemtech malarky then I think HyperCard is more than adequate for your business.
>
> Michael
>
> On Oct 31, 2012, at 9:07 AM, Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net wrote:
>
>> Tim, I am not an accomplished programmer,nor do I strive to be one.
>> I merely want to know if HC is a viable productive addition to my
>> business tools."Proof of pudding."
>> I have a small in home MLM business. My CODB is carefully
>> analyzed. I do not know if HC has any fervent believers that
>> also input improvements to it. My task is to find out.
>> This is not a hobby. I`m not looking at it simply "Because it`s there."
>> I intend to use it,but only if it satisfies my business requirements.
>> Cheers
>> Gene Henley
>>
>> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com ( Now in Japan!)
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "Tim Selander" <selander@[redacted].attne.jp>
>> To: <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:39 PM
>> Subject: Re: [HC]
>>
>>
>>> Hi Gene,
>>>
>>> Those are great machines to run HC on. (Well, I'm not sure what
>>> an MDD is, but the others are good!)
>>>
>>> If you are looking to make software solutions for your personal
>>> or your company's use on those machines, HC is great -- go for
>>> it! If you want to make software to release/sell to other people,
>>> then HC will probably disappoint you.
>>>
>>> Tim Selander
>>> Tokyo, Japan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/31/12 6:04 AM, Gene Henley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a Quicksolver G4 Tiger,a Power PC 7200 with external SCSI burner,
>>>> an all-in one with OS 9.2,and
>>>> a MDD G4 Tiger.
>>>> Additionally, I have standby Dells with XP. Is there hope while there is
>>>> life?
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Gene H
>>>>
>>>> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com
>>>>
>>>> From: Alain Farmer
>>>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [HC]
>>>>
>>>> Hi Gene,
>>>>
>>>> If you have an old-mac and/or have an emulator (ex: sheepshaver), then
>>>> you can still use HyperCard usefully.
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise, the scriptors that I know [of] are using MetaCard or RunRev.
>>>>
>>>> In both cases, you would/will use these if you want to create desktop
>>>> applications.
>>>>
>>>> The Web is another animal.
>>>>
>>>> What Dan and other(s) are imagining (if I have grasped this thread
>>>> accurately) is the power and simplicity of HyperCard/HyperTalk if/when
>>>> the become web-native. Dynamic-HTML (HTML, CSS, Javascript) are still
>>>> too complicated for most people.
>>>>
>>>> Or perhaps this is just me plugging an old idea that I have not
>>>> accomplished yet, e.g. wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to author and
>>>> script the web as easily as it was to author and script HyperCard
>>>> stacks? UserLevels 1 (browse) and 2 (editing content) are a cinch. With
>>>> userLevel 3, we could co-author graphics; some tools exist in this
>>>> regard. UserLevel 4 (authoring) is do-able; I have seen many web-based
>>>> wysiwyg interface-building kits that allow drag & drop, etc. UserLevel 5
>>>> (scripting) is still R&D-ish; there are some tools for converting xTalk
>>>> into JavaScript. While I agree that JavaScript is no as easy as
>>>> HyperTalk, as a user of both I see the mappings rather
>>>> straightforwardly. I've not abandonned the project, but clearly it is
>>>> too-big for me to pull-off solo.
>>>>
>>>> Welcome to the HyperCard community, Gene. It's still alive! ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Alain
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net<mailto:mhenley2%40verizon.net>>
>>>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:44:29 PM
>>>> Subject: [HC]
>>>>
>>>> Thank you. I`ll not go through a series of "if/thens"
>>>> To the point. I have acquired a bunch of HC books,cd`s,and floppies.
>>>> I try to approach anything new to me as "one bite at a time",starting
>>>> from basics.
>>>> This will not be a hobby. I hope the result will be useful. I have a
>>>> very small
>>>> in home business. IF HC has little productive use,and IF there is little
>>>> hope
>>>> for fine tuning to productive usefulness,THEN I wonder why I expend the
>>>> energy.
>>>> On the other hand,perhaps the nay sayers are wrong.
>>>> You have my attention.
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Gene H
>>>>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gene.

You have many responders, right? And many opinions, reminiscences and exhortations. Remember that I still use it and program in it today.

There is no reason to make the effort to learn HC.

==============================================================================================

Totally exclusive?<<<<

==========================================================================================

1- LiveCode is just as much fun to use and learn as HC, just fabulously more powerful and complete.So do what you will.

================================================================================

FUN? Not one of my motives! :-)<<<<<<<<<<

=================================================================================

Either way, you will have a blast, really, and we will all be there for you, in either environment.

++++++++++++++===================================================================

Is this declarative engraved in stone? If so, I consider it a pledge,based on personal honour.<<<<

++++++++++++===================================================================

The questions you will initially ask will be the same. And at least you will have a hell of a head start if you eventually migrate to

LiveCode, which you will if you really get to know and love HyperCard.

++++++================================================================================

Thank you,but love has nothing to do with it. My motives are purely for its useful utility in the here and now. The home based business

I`m in has corporate supplied programs,training aids,and business building presentations. While I do not know what the future brings,

I am not deterred by risks. CALCULATED RISKS! Correspondence with others,not on this forum, have advised me of the HC value

in my present growth curve. I am a fervent free enterpriser. That`s why I have never written one word denigrating efforts to accomplish

not only with focus,but with working smartly. Ergo, I applaud plowing new ground,but while I may be perceived as using a draft animal,

while others use machines, my acreage is small. So far. When the need arrives,and I`m sure it will, I will use the more efficient.Meanwhile,

back on the farm,..................... Muchas gratias Dios y familia.

I remain

Respectfully

In rapt attention to honest and sincere advice. Please let it be for HC

My gratitude will be sincere, attententive,and with not a trace of disdain or malarkey

Cheers

Gene Henley

Southern by Grace of God

Resident of Sovereign State of New York
www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com

On 11/2/12 7:44 AM, Gene Henley wrote:

> I`m in has corporate supplied programs,training aids,and business
> building presentations.

If you plan to do presentations using HC, the lack of easy color support
will be a detriment. Black and white bitmapped artwork is not well
received these days. It is possible to overlay color to some extent but
control is limited and requires a lot of scripting.

I thought Craig's post was dead-on. He was not wrong when he said we'd
help you, this group has a long history of that.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

I think most persons not familiar with MLM(Multi Level Marketing),and instinctively envision it as bricks and mortar based
sales presentations to powers that be in corporate. Before I respond to your admonitions,I respectfully suggest familiarizing
with the system. I have used pencil and paper to one on one.(Even envelopes) I have used board and easel. I have used laptop
with downloaded presentations to as little as five persons in a small group. The best I can describe it is to look at Avon,Melatuca,
Fuller,Tupperware,Amway,Stemtech Sciences,Watkins and many more. The fact is that too polished presentations are not the same
as from the heart presentations. In other words, we don`t seek to dazzle with our footwork. Does this work? Some curse it.
Some bless it. Some think profit is automatic. It`s not,unless one works the system. When momentum is had,hello residual income.
What really matters? Profit. How? Using a system proven to work by track record. KISS! Keep it Simple & Substantive. The
system works. I cannot say the same for all people. Presentations do not necessarily evoke motivation just because they are "polished".
I can only offer my years of life experience.
Cheers
Gene Henley
www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com

Which comes first? Chicken or egg?
Please note that I have already stated I`m a beginner. I also stated that I`m on this forum to learn from experts that know.
Exactly what do you want me to stop? So far,90% or more of posts directed to me have been to lead me away from the
very reason I joined. I joined to learn more about HYPERCARD,not to be bombarded with all the reasons I should not learn
it. Just who is playing? I looked at the name of this forum. I looked at the welcome. I believed what I read. I haven`t brought up
the issue of doubt.However, since you mention it,before doubt creeps into my mind, just what is accomplished by so much
bandwidth trying to convince me to abandon it. Just read the litany of posts that were written.
IF you are sincere,then please allow me to suggest that the "Stop THIS" be applied to those that do NOT stop suggesting
other programs. I HEARD YOU. I politely and respectfully said,"NO, I am not interested in other programs." How many cottin
times must I reiterate that? "But why are you so interested in HyperCard,Gene etc.,,,,,,,,,,
And when did I allude,hint,write,or suggest that I solicit reinforcement of my abilities and accomplishments? In what thread
was my abilities or experience bannered? I do want to understand the imperative I have read below.Let`s see if it makes sense.
In light of my ready admission that I am new, it astounds me that you demand I "Stop trying to play in this arena until .....write
code that works,........ etc." I respectfully suggest that IF one of the reasons that this forum exists is to mentor and trade info
about HC,THEN merely suggesting "Read the book and get back to us when you learn the code" syndrome is too illegical for me
to fathom. As I have previously posited,perhaps I am on the wrong forum. Otherwise,how about a stop to the wandering away
from HyperCard and starting at beginning. Does installing,upgrading,home stack, suggested organization of applications,etc.be
worthy of discussion. If not,say so. Or wander on to the better "OS"? How about cranking it up in HyperCard.
What say you? If I am in the wrong place for this, THEN say so. Let`s not waste each others time. I`ll go to another group,and
continue on with my mission. No hard feelings. Just doing what I must,even if alone on dark side of the moon.
Respectfully
Gene Henley
www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com



Gene.

Really. Stop this.

You are dealing with a crew of expert programmers. Most do this for a living. We all know all about software and its relationship to business.

Nobody doubts your abilities or experience.

But stop trying to play in this arena until you can write code that works, and hopefully performs a useful task, and have done so for decades.

Especially, please, can the IF/THEN stuff. It was cute the very first time, because I, at least, saw an incipient eagerness that is always welcome in the xTalk world.

Learn HC. We will help beyond what you can possibly believe.

Get going.

Craig Newman

On 11/2/12 7:18 PM, Gene Henley wrote:
> If I am in the wrong place for this, THEN say so.

As far as I know, there are no other HyperCard groups.

What's your first HC-specific question?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Gene.


OK.


You have to learn by making a few small applications. It does not matter how trivial they seem (if you simply had to call them something) like an address book or a metric converter or whatever. The exercise will be very rewarding, and you will then find the perils and joys of adding functionality.


Perils and joys. Please consider the fun aspect of this effort as something, lagniappe, that was never part of the process of learning an ordinary procedural language. There is something in the very high level nature of the language and IDE which is akin to a game. More than most, anyway.


I recommend the two books you are getting, Goodman / Winkler, Kamins and DeVoto, as terrific intros to LiveCode. Skim through Goodman. These are not books that are best read like textbooks, though you will refer to them constantly very soon as if they were. Start making a stack, anything. One suggestion I am fond of suggesting to beginners is to make a stack containing a single button and a single field, and write handlers that trap the following messages and do something trivial with each one:


mouseUp
mouseEnter
mouseLeave
mousewithin
mouseStillDown


You might try, for example, to write a handler that puts a random number into the field every time the cursor enters the area of the button, and puts one of the letters of the alphabet every time it leaves. Seems silly and useless, eh? Try it. Then make it jump through hoops.


And go on from there. Write back when you get stuck...


Craig Newman


-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Fri, Nov 2, 2012 9:18 pm
Subject: [HC] HC]





Which comes first? Chicken or egg?
Please note that I have already stated I`m a beginner. I also stated that I`m on this forum to learn from experts that know.
Exactly what do you want me to stop? So far,90% or more of posts directed to me have been to lead me away from the
very reason I joined. I joined to learn more about HYPERCARD,not to be bombarded with all the reasons I should not learn
it. Just who is playing? I looked at the name of this forum. I looked at the welcome. I believed what I read. I haven`t brought up
the issue of doubt.However, since you mention it,before doubt creeps into my mind, just what is accomplished by so much
bandwidth trying to convince me to abandon it. Just read the litany of posts that were written.
IF you are sincere,then please allow me to suggest that the "Stop THIS" be applied to those that do NOT stop suggesting
other programs. I HEARD YOU. I politely and respectfully said,"NO, I am not interested in other programs." How many cottin
times must I reiterate that? "But why are you so interested in HyperCard,Gene etc.,,,,,,,,,,
And when did I allude,hint,write,or suggest that I solicit reinforcement of my abilities and accomplishments? In what thread
was my abilities or experience bannered? I do want to understand the imperative I have read below.Let`s see if it makes sense.
In light of my ready admission that I am new, it astounds me that you demand I "Stop trying to play in this arena until .....write
code that works,........ etc." I respectfully suggest that IF one of the reasons that this forum exists is to mentor and trade info
about HC,THEN merely suggesting "Read the book and get back to us when you learn the code" syndrome is too illegical for me
to fathom. As I have previously posited,perhaps I am on the wrong forum. Otherwise,how about a stop to the wandering away
from HyperCard and starting at beginning. Does installing,upgrading,home stack, suggested organization of applications,etc.be
worthy of discussion. If not,say so. Or wander on to the better "OS"? How about cranking it up in HyperCard.
What say you? If I am in the wrong place for this, THEN say so. Let`s not waste each others time. I`ll go to another group,and
continue on with my mission. No hard feelings. Just doing what I must,even if alone on dark side of the moon.
Respectfully
Gene Henley
www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com


Gene.

Really. Stop this.

You are dealing with a crew of expert programmers. Most do this for a living. We all know all about software and its relationship to business.

Nobody doubts your abilities or experience.

But stop trying to play in this arena until you can write code that works, and hopefully performs a useful task, and have done so for decades.

Especially, please, can the IF/THEN stuff. It was cute the very first time, because I, at least, saw an incipient eagerness that is always welcome in the xTalk world.

Learn HC. We will help beyond what you can possibly believe.

Get going.

Craig Newman

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I learned HyperTalk by going thru the Goodman book and doing every single "You do it" in there. Worked fine. Do what Craig says, always : )

Catherine

On Nov 2, 2012, at 11:18 PM, DunbarX@[redacted].comwrote:

> Gene.
>
>
> OK.
>
>
> You have to learn by making a few small applications. It does not matter how trivial they seem (if you simply had to call them something) like an address book or a metric converter or whatever. The exercise will be very rewarding, and you will then find the perils and joys of adding functionality.
>
>
> Perils and joys. Please consider the fun aspect of this effort as something, lagniappe, that was never part of the process of learning an ordinary procedural language. There is something in the very high level nature of the language and IDE which is akin to a game. More than most, anyway.
>
>
> I recommend the two books you are getting, Goodman / Winkler, Kamins and DeVoto, as terrific intros to LiveCode. Skim through Goodman. These are not books that are best read like textbooks, though you will refer to them constantly very soon as if they were. Start making a stack, anything. One suggestion I am fond of suggesting to beginners is to make a stack containing a single button and a single field, and write handlers that trap the following messages and do something trivial with each one:
>
>
> mouseUp
> mouseEnter
> mouseLeave
> mousewithin
> mouseStillDown
>
>
> You might try, for example, to write a handler that puts a random number into the field every time the cursor enters the area of the button, and puts one of the letters of the alphabet every time it leaves. Seems silly and useless, eh? Try it. Then make it jump through hoops.
>
>
> And go on from there. Write back when you get stuck...
>
>
> Craig Newman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
> To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
> Sent: Fri, Nov 2, 2012 9:18 pm
> Subject: [HC] HC]
>
>
>
>
>
> Which comes first? Chicken or egg?
> Please note that I have already stated I`m a beginner. I also stated that I`m on this forum to learn from experts that know.
> Exactly what do you want me to stop? So far,90% or more of posts directed to me have been to lead me away from the
> very reason I joined. I joined to learn more about HYPERCARD,not to be bombarded with all the reasons I should not learn
> it. Just who is playing? I looked at the name of this forum. I looked at the welcome. I believed what I read. I haven`t brought up
> the issue of doubt.However, since you mention it,before doubt creeps into my mind, just what is accomplished by so much
> bandwidth trying to convince me to abandon it. Just read the litany of posts that were written.
> IF you are sincere,then please allow me to suggest that the "Stop THIS" be applied to those that do NOT stop suggesting
> other programs. I HEARD YOU. I politely and respectfully said,"NO, I am not interested in other programs." How many cottin
> times must I reiterate that? "But why are you so interested in HyperCard,Gene etc.,,,,,,,,,,
> And when did I allude,hint,write,or suggest that I solicit reinforcement of my abilities and accomplishments? In what thread
> was my abilities or experience bannered? I do want to understand the imperative I have read below.Let`s see if it makes sense.
> In light of my ready admission that I am new, it astounds me that you demand I "Stop trying to play in this arena until .....write
> code that works,........ etc." I respectfully suggest that IF one of the reasons that this forum exists is to mentor and trade info
> about HC,THEN merely suggesting "Read the book and get back to us when you learn the code" syndrome is too illegical for me
> to fathom. As I have previously posited,perhaps I am on the wrong forum. Otherwise,how about a stop to the wandering away
> from HyperCard and starting at beginning. Does installing,upgrading,home stack, suggested organization of applications,etc.be
> worthy of discussion. If not,say so. Or wander on to the better "OS"? How about cranking it up in HyperCard.
> What say you? If I am in the wrong place for this, THEN say so. Let`s not waste each others time. I`ll go to another group,and
> continue on with my mission. No hard feelings. Just doing what I must,even if alone on dark side of the moon.
> Respectfully
> Gene Henley
> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com
>
>
> Gene.
>
> Really. Stop this.
>
> You are dealing with a crew of expert programmers. Most do this for a living. We all know all about software and its relationship to business.
>
> Nobody doubts your abilities or experience.
>
> But stop trying to play in this arena until you can write code that works, and hopefully performs a useful task, and have done so for decades.
>
> Especially, please, can the IF/THEN stuff. It was cute the very first time, because I, at least, saw an incipient eagerness that is always welcome in the xTalk world.
>
> Learn HC. We will help beyond what you can possibly believe.
>
> Get going.
>
> Craig Newman
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>

Hello Cat.


Craig



-----Original Message-----
From: Catherine Kunicki <marsvi0let@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Fri, Nov 2, 2012 11:21 pm
Subject: Re: [HC] HC]





I learned HyperTalk by going thru the Goodman book and doing every single "You do it" in there. Worked fine. Do what Craig says, always : )

Catherine

On Nov 2, 2012, at 11:18 PM, DunbarX@[redacted].comwrote:

> Gene.
>
>
> OK.
>
>
> You have to learn by making a few small applications. It does not matter how trivial they seem (if you simply had to call them something) like an address book or a metric converter or whatever. The exercise will be very rewarding, and you will then find the perils and joys of adding functionality.
>
>
> Perils and joys. Please consider the fun aspect of this effort as something, lagniappe, that was never part of the process of learning an ordinary procedural language. There is something in the very high level nature of the language and IDE which is akin to a game. More than most, anyway.
>
>
> I recommend the two books you are getting, Goodman / Winkler, Kamins and DeVoto, as terrific intros to LiveCode. Skim through Goodman. These are not books that are best read like textbooks, though you will refer to them constantly very soon as if they were. Start making a stack, anything. One suggestion I am fond of suggesting to beginners is to make a stack containing a single button and a single field, and write handlers that trap the following messages and do something trivial with each one:
>
>
> mouseUp
> mouseEnter
> mouseLeave
> mousewithin
> mouseStillDown
>
>
> You might try, for example, to write a handler that puts a random number into the field every time the cursor enters the area of the button, and puts one of the letters of the alphabet every time it leaves. Seems silly and useless, eh? Try it. Then make it jump through hoops.
>
>
> And go on from there. Write back when you get stuck...
>
>
> Craig Newman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
> To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
> Sent: Fri, Nov 2, 2012 9:18 pm
> Subject: [HC] HC]
>
>
>
>
>
> Which comes first? Chicken or egg?
> Please note that I have already stated I`m a beginner. I also stated that I`m on this forum to learn from experts that know.
> Exactly what do you want me to stop? So far,90% or more of posts directed to me have been to lead me away from the
> very reason I joined. I joined to learn more about HYPERCARD,not to be bombarded with all the reasons I should not learn
> it. Just who is playing? I looked at the name of this forum. I looked at the welcome. I believed what I read. I haven`t brought up
> the issue of doubt.However, since you mention it,before doubt creeps into my mind, just what is accomplished by so much
> bandwidth trying to convince me to abandon it. Just read the litany of posts that were written.
> IF you are sincere,then please allow me to suggest that the "Stop THIS" be applied to those that do NOT stop suggesting
> other programs. I HEARD YOU. I politely and respectfully said,"NO, I am not interested in other programs." How many cottin
> times must I reiterate that? "But why are you so interested in HyperCard,Gene etc.,,,,,,,,,,
> And when did I allude,hint,write,or suggest that I solicit reinforcement of my abilities and accomplishments? In what thread
> was my abilities or experience bannered? I do want to understand the imperative I have read below.Let`s see if it makes sense.
> In light of my ready admission that I am new, it astounds me that you demand I "Stop trying to play in this arena until .....write
> code that works,........ etc." I respectfully suggest that IF one of the reasons that this forum exists is to mentor and trade info
> about HC,THEN merely suggesting "Read the book and get back to us when you learn the code" syndrome is too illegical for me
> to fathom. As I have previously posited,perhaps I am on the wrong forum. Otherwise,how about a stop to the wandering away
> from HyperCard and starting at beginning. Does installing,upgrading,home stack, suggested organization of applications,etc.be
> worthy of discussion. If not,say so. Or wander on to the better "OS"? How about cranking it up in HyperCard.
> What say you? If I am in the wrong place for this, THEN say so. Let`s not waste each others time. I`ll go to another group,and
> continue on with my mission. No hard feelings. Just doing what I must,even if alone on dark side of the moon.
> Respectfully
> Gene Henley
> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com
>
>
> Gene.
>
> Really. Stop this.
>
> You are dealing with a crew of expert programmers. Most do this for a living. We all know all about software and its relationship to business.
>
> Nobody doubts your abilities or experience.
>
> But stop trying to play in this arena until you can write code that works, and hopefully performs a useful task, and have done so for decades.
>
> Especially, please, can the IF/THEN stuff. It was cute the very first time, because I, at least, saw an incipient eagerness that is always welcome in the xTalk world.
>
> Learn HC. We will help beyond what you can possibly believe.
>
> Get going.
>
> Craig Newman
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>

On 03.11.2012, at 01:18, Gene Henley wrote:

> Does installing,upgrading,home stack, suggested organization of applications,etc. be
> worthy of discussion.


No, because this email list is not a tutorial for beginners.

Actually you are asking the wrong questions all the time. What people here need to know is this:

What exactly should your business software be able to do and how do you want it to look like? How do you want the single components to work together? If you give a detailed description of what you have in mind then you may besurprised to find out that such a HC solution may perhaps already exist somewhere. Then all youll have to do is to download it from an online arch
ive and you are ready to go.

Now, regarding the installation of HC, its as simple as it can be. Look
at the stacks that come with HC, just to get a feeling for how HC works. These stacks are quite elaborate.

Next step: Look for HC stacks in online archives that claim to be business software. If you want to tweak them a little here and there, then thats
the time where Danny Goodman with his wonderful book "The Complete HyperCard" comes in. If something still seems complicated after you have consulted Goodman, then ask the group here.

This is the way you should go (if you are still determined to use HC). But be forewarned: You cant use HC and Mac OS 9 for all European languages;
you cant also write Old English with this ancient stuff. You cant eve
n send a letter to the singer Bjrk (Bjrk Gumundsdttir) with HC
(or Mac OS 9 for that matter), because , , , , and seve
ral other characters are not supported.


Anna

10-4 ! That`s what I`m talking about. Great suggestions.
I`m on it.
PS. Did I mention I have NO interest in LiveCode?
Just in case I forgot to mention it, I now say it. :-)
HC is another tool in my tool box. I have others which
are used depending on the prospect,and/or training
session. CODB in here and now.
Thanks
Cheers
Gene Henley

www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com




From: DunbarX@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: [HC] HC]



Gene.

OK.

You have to learn by making a few small applications. It does not matter how trivial they seem (if you simply had to call them something) like an address book or a metric converter or whatever. The exercise will be very rewarding, and you will then find the perils and joys of adding functionality.

Perils and joys. Please consider the fun aspect of this effort as something, lagniappe, that was never part of the process of learning an ordinary procedural language. There is something in the very high level nature of the language and IDE which is akin to a game. More than most, anyway.

I recommend the two books you are getting, Goodman / Winkler, Kamins and DeVoto, as terrific intros to LiveCode. Skim through Goodman. These are not books that are best read like textbooks, though you will refer to them constantly very soon as if they were. Start making a stack, anything. One suggestion I am fond of suggesting to beginners is to make a stack containing a single button and a single field, and write handlers that trap the following messages and do something trivial with each one:

mouseUp
mouseEnter
mouseLeave
mousewithin
mouseStillDown

You might try, for example, to write a handler that puts a random number into the field every time the cursor enters the area of the button, and puts one of the letters of the alphabet every time it leaves. Seems silly and useless, eh? Try it. Then make it jump through hoops.

And go on from there. Write back when you get stuck...

Craig Newman



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

IF this opinion is a reflection of the official policy of this forum,THEN I
am indeed on the wrong discussion list.
Before I proceed further,as I stated previously, I AM A BEGINNER. I think
it`s selfish for me to waste the
time of expert programmers that :
1. Have stated HC is dead,long live LiveCode
2. This list is not for beginners
3. Post litanies of " Don`t use HC. (Sigh,You poor
misguided person.)

So, again I respectfully request guidance. For beginner,YES OR NO!
Respectfully submitted
Gene Henley

www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com

Please know that I do not do what"..........." says,or anyone else `always`. I use that wonderful power of the soul called freedom of choice.
That,of course,comes with my personal accountability and responsibility. :-) Make sense?
Cheers
Gene Henley

www.thinkgene.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com



From: Catherine Kunicki
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [HC] HC]



I learned HyperTalk by going thru the Goodman book and doing every single "You do it" in there. Worked fine. Do what Craig says, always : )

Catherine

We love to answer HyperCard questions. I think Craig said something to the effect of that we look forward to you asking one.


On Nov 3, 2012, at 6:49 AM, Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net wrote:

>
> >So, again I respectfully request guidance. For beginner,YES OR NO!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This does not work should I analyze Anna`s recent post which said that this forum is not a beginners tutorial.
I refer back to my oft repeated admission that I am a beginner. IF what Anna said is taken with correct understanding,
then I might conclude that I am on the wrong group. Where is the line drawn between answering a question,and
tutoring? I respect those that know,and will respectfully defer to the official position.
Cheers
Gene Henley
www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com

From: Colin Holgate
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [HC] HC]



We love to answer HyperCard questions. I think Craig said something to the effect of that we look forward to you asking one.

On Nov 3, 2012, at 6:49 AM, Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net wrote:

>
> >So, again I respectfully request guidance. For beginner,YES OR NO!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's not uncommon for members of a group to misunderstand what the group is for. In some I'm in you get posts from members who think that the group is the official support forum for the company that makes the software. I don't think I've seen a case where someone thought that the group was an online beginner's course on how to use the software. I have seen cases where a beginner would post asking if there was any other member who might be interested in doing some off-line tutoring.

So, the general case is that everyone here uses or has used HyperCard, and the discussions are about HyperCard or related topics. For HyperCard questions it's usually the case that the poster has attempted to do something, and got stuck or seen unexpected results. A quick question here would most likely yield a solution to the problem.

The range of skills here is unusual, probably because of the lack of support for HyperCard. You get everyone from a raw beginner who is curious, through to the people who created HyperCard, or were earlier pioneers in multimedia. So don't worry about what any one person says, just try to ask questions that will get you further in your learning.

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 2:09 AM, Anna <pix@[redacted].de wrote:

> No, because this email list is not a tutorial for beginners.


As one of the moderators of this list, I say that I agree with Anna that
the list is not a tutorial. In addition to being a place for sharing our
experience with and experiences of HyperCard, it is also a Q&A forum, which
can be very useful for someone who is *working their way through a tutorial*.


As others have mentioned, the best tutorials are in the several books by
Danny Goodman and other authors.

The best way to take advantage of this list is to come with specific
questions related to actual work you are doing in HyperCard. The expertise
and wisdom available here is awesome. Hopefully, newcomers can make good
use of it and join us in our undying admiration for things HyperCard.

-- Paul


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

IF you people keep replying to this nasty little troll THEN he will keep turning this forum into a waste of our time


--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, "Gene Henley" <mhenley2@...> wrote:
>
> Please know that I do not do what"..........." says,or anyone else `always`. I use that wonderful power of the soul called freedom of choice.
> That,of course,comes with my personal accountability and responsibility. :-) Make sense?
> Cheers
> Gene Henley
>
> www.thinkgene.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com
>
>
>
> From: Catherine Kunicki
> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [HC] HC]
>
>
>
> I learned HyperTalk by going thru the Goodman book and doing every single "You do it" in there. Worked fine. Do what Craig says, always : )
>
> Catherine
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Well, thank you for your unbiased opinion. I dare not quibble with your if/then logic, i.e. " IF ...believe in ` Stemtech malarky`,THEN Hypercard is more than adequate...business`. :- ) I find it dificult to counter this steel trap logic. I`m inadequate to the task of following it. :-) I`ll try harder.
Cheers
Gene Henley
Who remains
At your service




From: Michael Mays
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [HC]



Gene,

It is not a viable program because the program is dead. If the people writing emulators stop and/or the old hardware it is running on dies and cannot be repaired, that is it. But IMO if you believe that Stemtech malarky then I think HyperCard is more than adequate for your business.

Michael

On Oct 31, 2012, at 9:07 AM, Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net wrote:

> Tim, I am not an accomplished programmer,nor do I strive to be one.
> I merely want to know if HC is a viable productive addition to my
> business tools."Proof of pudding."
> I have a small in home MLM business. My CODB is carefully
> analyzed. I do not know if HC has any fervent believers that
> also input improvements to it. My task is to find out.
> This is not a hobby. I`m not looking at it simply "Because it`s there."
> I intend to use it,but only if it satisfies my business requirements.
> Cheers
> Gene Henley
>
> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com ( Now in Japan!)
>
>
>
> From: "Tim Selander" <selander@[redacted].attne.jp>
> To: <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [HC]
>
>
>> Hi Gene,
>>
>> Those are great machines to run HC on. (Well, I'm not sure what
>> an MDD is, but the others are good!)
>>
>> If you are looking to make software solutions for your personal
>> or your company's use on those machines, HC is great -- go for
>> it! If you want to make software to release/sell to other people,
>> then HC will probably disappoint you.
>>
>> Tim Selander
>> Tokyo, Japan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/31/12 6:04 AM, Gene Henley wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a Quicksolver G4 Tiger,a Power PC 7200 with external SCSI burner,
>>> an all-in one with OS 9.2,and
>>> a MDD G4 Tiger.
>>> Additionally, I have standby Dells with XP. Is there hope while there is
>>> life?
>>> Cheers
>>> Gene H
>>>
>>> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com
>>>
>>> From: Alain Farmer
>>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [HC]
>>>
>>> Hi Gene,
>>>
>>> If you have an old-mac and/or have an emulator (ex: sheepshaver), then
>>> you can still use HyperCard usefully.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, the scriptors that I know [of] are using MetaCard or RunRev.
>>>
>>> In both cases, you would/will use these if you want to create desktop
>>> applications.
>>>
>>> The Web is another animal.
>>>
>>> What Dan and other(s) are imagining (if I have grasped this thread
>>> accurately) is the power and simplicity of HyperCard/HyperTalk if/when
>>> the become web-native. Dynamic-HTML (HTML, CSS, Javascript) are still
>>> too complicated for most people.
>>>
>>> Or perhaps this is just me plugging an old idea that I have not
>>> accomplished yet, e.g. wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to author and
>>> script the web as easily as it was to author and script HyperCard
>>> stacks? UserLevels 1 (browse) and 2 (editing content) are a cinch. With
>>> userLevel 3, we could co-author graphics; some tools exist in this
>>> regard. UserLevel 4 (authoring) is do-able; I have seen many web-based
>>> wysiwyg interface-building kits that allow drag & drop, etc. UserLevel 5
>>> (scripting) is still R&D-ish; there are some tools for converting xTalk
>>> into JavaScript. While I agree that JavaScript is no as easy as
>>> HyperTalk, as a user of both I see the mappings rather
>>> straightforwardly. I've not abandonned the project, but clearly it is
>>> too-big for me to pull-off solo.
>>>
>>> Welcome to the HyperCard community, Gene. It's still alive! ;-)
>>>
>>> Alain
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net<mailto:mhenley2%40verizon.net>>
>>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:44:29 PM
>>> Subject: [HC]
>>>
>>> Thank you. I`ll not go through a series of "if/thens"
>>> To the point. I have acquired a bunch of HC books,cd`s,and floppies.
>>> I try to approach anything new to me as "one bite at a time",starting
>>> from basics.
>>> This will not be a hobby. I hope the result will be useful. I have a
>>> very small
>>> in home business. IF HC has little productive use,and IF there is little
>>> hope
>>> for fine tuning to productive usefulness,THEN I wonder why I expend the
>>> energy.
>>> On the other hand,perhaps the nay sayers are wrong.
>>> You have my attention.
>>> Cheers
>>> Gene H
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>