HyperCard Mailing List

Hi everyone,

Pretty excited that I found this group...I've been using MiniVMac and Basilisk lately to relive my old Hypercard/System 7 days, and I'm super nostalgic right now. I bought an old iBook clamshell on eBay the other day, too. My wife is thrilled.

Anyway, I used to make silly little Hypercard games when I was 12, and I'd like to see if I could find a few of them for old times' sake. Does anybody know what happened to the old AOL archives of Hypercard stacks?

Welcome to the group.

> Does anybody know what happened to the old
> AOL archives of Hypercard stacks?

I was one of the folks who checked stacks when they were uploaded to the
AOL forum. As far as I know, AOL simply deleted the archives, but I think that
Jacqueline Gay (who managed that forum) archived some of the best ones
before the forum closed. I'm not sure if it was for her private collection or if
she posted them somewhere. She checks in here periodically so she'll let us
know. I'm sure other folks also archived ones that were of interest to
them.

> I used to make silly little Hypercard games when I was
> 12, and I'd like to see if I could find a few of them

I doubt if those were archived anywhere. When the AOL forum was active got
tons of uploaded stacks by young people who were just learning HyperCard,
and although those stacks were good learning experiences for the folks who
made them, they were of limited value to everyone else.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the insight. I expected as much regarding the deletion of
the stacks archive, and my stacks were definitely of limited value to
anyone (including myself!). One of them however was called "SimuPark"
where you would design the layout of your own theme park...that's
probably the only one I cared to find anyway, and the only one of any
(although again, limited) value.
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, hcheaven@... wrote:
>
> Welcome to the group.
>
> > Does anybody know what happened to the old
> > AOL archives of Hypercard stacks?
>
> I was one of the folks who checked stacks when they were uploaded to
the
> AOL forum. As far as I know, AOL simply deleted the archives, but I
think that
> Jacqueline Gay (who managed that forum) archived some of the best ones
> before the forum closed. I'm not sure if it was for her private
collection or if
> she posted them somewhere. She checks in here periodically so she'll
let us
> know. I'm sure other folks also archived ones that were of interest to
> them.
>
> > I used to make silly little Hypercard games when I was
> > 12, and I'd like to see if I could find a few of them
>
> I doubt if those were archived anywhere. When the AOL forum was active
got
> tons of uploaded stacks by young people who were just learning
HyperCard,
> and although those stacks were good learning experiences for the folks
who
> made them, they were of limited value to everyone else.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Are you sure you don't have copies of your old stacks on a floppy disk
somewhere, or on the hard drive of an old computer?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 1/3/13 1:16 PM, timothyroche@[redacted].comwrote:
> Thanks for the insight. I expected as much regarding the deletion of
> the stacks archive, and my stacks were definitely of limited value to
> anyone (including myself!). One of them however was called "SimuPark"
> where you would design the layout of your own theme park...that's
> probably the only one I cared to find anyway, and the only one of any
> (although again, limited) value.

I have the files we saved from AOL which, as Jim mentioned, doesn't
include all the stacks. I just did a search for both "simu" and
"simuPark" and got no hits, so it looks like it isn't there.

The AOL archives weren't just meant for me, they were a group effort to
preserve them for everyone. At the time the file collection was
considered gigantic (it's now considered only pretty large) and we were
still on modems back then, so I wasn't able to upload the collection
anywhere. I had limited server space too. I have more space now, but I'm
not sure I want to store these online where I doubt they'll get many
downloads.

There are two folders of files, one marked "partial", and I don't know
if they overlap or not. Together they are just over 800 megs. I still
don't know what to do with them, but if anyone has ideas let me know.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Hi Jacque,

I have a few GB available in my Dropbox account, can upload the files there and make them public. I'll have to write a little script that limits the number of downloads to 24x800MB per day. We could upload the files to an additional sharing service like Wetransfer during the first few days. Additionally, we could make a torrent file. I can make the links available on the eHUG server. Getting all this done will take me a while, because I'm pretty busy.

Anyone who doesn't have dropbox yet can use the link http://qery.us/u6 to register. By using the referral link, you help creating additional space for the files.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com

We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote.

I could host them on the university server, if needed.



--- On Thu, 1/3/13, J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com wrote:

From: J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com
Subject: Re: [HC] Re: Old Hypercard Stacks from AOL?
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Date: Thursday, January 3, 2013, 2:40 PM

Unfortunately, the old computer is long gone, and the floppy disks are
MIA. :-(
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, hcheaven@... wrote:
>
> Are you sure you don't have copies of your old stacks on a floppy disk
> somewhere, or on the hard drive of an old computer?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Mark,

I think that a torrent file would lend itself perfectly to this kind of need. Seems like it would be the least work for you, it's fast by nature, and I know that I and probably many others would happily seed the stacks for as long as possible.

Tim

--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Mark Schonewille wrote:
>
> Hi Jacque,
>
> I have a few GB available in my Dropbox account, can upload the files there and make them public. I'll have to write a little script that limits the number of downloads to 24x800MB per day. We could upload the files to an additional sharing service like Wetransfer during the first few days. Additionally, we could make a torrent file. I can make the links available on the eHUG server. Getting all this done will take me a while, because I'm pretty busy.
>
> Anyone who doesn't have dropbox yet can use the link http://qery.us/u6 to register. By using the referral link, you help creating additional space for the files.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
> KvK: 50277553
>
> Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com
>
> We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote.
>
>
>
>
> On 3 jan 2013, at 20:40, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> >
> > I have the files we saved from AOL which, as Jim mentioned, doesn't
> > include all the stacks. I just did a search for both "simu" and
> > "simuPark" and got no hits, so it looks like it isn't there.
> >
> > The AOL archives weren't just meant for me, they were a group effort to
> > preserve them for everyone. At the time the file collection was
> > considered gigantic (it's now considered only pretty large) and we were
> > still on modems back then, so I wasn't able to upload the collection
> > anywhere. I had limited server space too. I have more space now, but I'm
> > not sure I want to store these online where I doubt they'll get many
> > downloads.
> >
> > There are two folders of files, one marked "partial", and I don't know
> > if they overlap or not. Together they are just over 800 megs. I still
> > don't know what to do with them, but if anyone has ideas let me know.
>

Oh, well. I really appreciate you taking the time to look. Thank you!
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, "J. Landman Gay" wrote:
>
> On 1/3/13 1:16 PM, timothyroche@... wrote:
> > Thanks for the insight. I expected as much regarding the deletion
of
> > the stacks archive, and my stacks were definitely of limited value
to
> > anyone (including myself!). One of them however was called
"SimuPark"
> > where you would design the layout of your own theme park...that's
> > probably the only one I cared to find anyway, and the only one of
any
> > (although again, limited) value.
>
> I have the files we saved from AOL which, as Jim mentioned, doesn't
> include all the stacks. I just did a search for both "simu" and
> "simuPark" and got no hits, so it looks like it isn't there.
>
> The AOL archives weren't just meant for me, they were a group effort
to
> preserve them for everyone. At the time the file collection was
> considered gigantic (it's now considered only pretty large) and we
were
> still on modems back then, so I wasn't able to upload the collection
> anywhere. I had limited server space too. I have more space now, but
I'm
> not sure I want to store these online where I doubt they'll get many
> downloads.
>
> There are two folders of files, one marked "partial", and I don't know
> if they overlap or not. Together they are just over 800 megs. I still
> don't know what to do with them, but if anyone has ideas let me know.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@...
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 1/3/13 2:16 PM, Eric Engle wrote:
> I could host them on the university server, if needed.

That'd be great if you could. I'd rather see them on a server somewhere
than linked to an individual dropbox. Eventually I may put them on my
server too, but for now there is a zipped copy on my Google Drive, set
for public access:

<https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_INLlIY8mdia2JBcENYMF9Bbms>;

Anyone else who wants it is welcome to grab it, I'll leave it there for
at least a month, longer if I don't need the space. If anyone wants to
put an unzipped copy on their server, that would be useful for people
who want to get only some of the files, or do searches. I did try to put
the unzipped files on Google Drive (the size isn't much larger unzipped)
but some of the files may have become corrupted, because 121 of them
wouldn't process and Finder crashed twice. That's just a few bad apples
though compared to the large number that are left.

All the individual files are StuffIt or SEA files. Dig around to find
your decompressors. :)


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Thank you!

Downloading the file as I type... it'll be fun to poke around
them and revive fond, old memories on some quiet, rainy afternoon
when nothing urgent is pressing :-)

Tim Selander
Tokyo, Japan


On 1/4/13 3:39 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> but for now there is a zipped copy on my Google Drive, set
> for public access:

On 1/4/13 9:31 AM, Tim Selander wrote:
> Thank you!
>
> Downloading the file as I type... it'll be fun to poke around
> them and revive fond, old memories on some quiet, rainy afternoon
> when nothing urgent is pressing :-)

You're very welcome. The "fun" part will be decompressing all those
stuffit files, and maybe fixing a good number of file names that have
odd characters in them. :)


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

On 03.01.2013, at 20:40, J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com wrote:
> The AOL archives weren't just meant for me, they were a group effort to
> preserve them for everyone. At the time the file collection was
> considered gigantic (it's now considered only pretty large) and we were
> still on modems back then, so I wasn't able to upload the collection
> anywhere. I had limited server space too. I have more space now, but I'm
> not sure I want to store these online where I doubt they'll get many
> downloads.


What's the legality of hosting these on the web? Do you have permission? I'm pondering whether I could host these on http://hypercard.org -- though I'm not sure my Dreamhost web space includes 800 MB of storage, will have to check.

Cheers,
-- Uli Kusterer
http://stacksmith.org

Thanks a lot; will plow them for ideas :)

--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, "J. Landman Gay" wrote:
>
> On 1/3/13 2:16 PM, Eric Engle wrote:
> > I could host them on the university server, if needed.
>
> That'd be great if you could. I'd rather see them on a server somewhere
> than linked to an individual dropbox. Eventually I may put them on my
> server too, but for now there is a zipped copy on my Google Drive, set
> for public access:
>
>
>
> Anyone else who wants it is welcome to grab it, I'll leave it there for
> at least a month, longer if I don't need the space. If anyone wants to
> put an unzipped copy on their server, that would be useful for people
> who want to get only some of the files, or do searches. I did try to put
> the unzipped files on Google Drive (the size isn't much larger unzipped)
> but some of the files may have become corrupted, because 121 of them
> wouldn't process and Finder crashed twice. That's just a few bad apples
> though compared to the large number that are left.
>
> All the individual files are StuffIt or SEA files. Dig around to find
> your decompressors. :)
>
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@...
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>

On 1/6/13 5:01 AM, Uli Kusterer wrote:

> What's the legality of hosting these on the web? Do you have
> permission? I'm pondering whether I could host these on
> http://hypercard.org -- though I'm not sure my Dreamhost web space
> includes 800 MB of storage, will have to check.

Good question, I wondered about that myself. Obviously AOL had implicit
permission, and one could argue that they were public because of that. I
don't know if AOL claimed copyright but I really doubt it, the work
would belong to the authors. If so, then we do not have permission
directly from the authors to redistribute.

So there's that.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

I know some of the Mac magazines redistributed stuff on cd's that they'd dl'd from AOL. I remember going two barreled Yosemite Sam about something they took from me without notification. It's probably fine.

I wonder if stuff like the Dartmouth Archives could be resurrected via archive.org?

Catherine


On Jan 6, 2013, at 2:19 PM, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque@[redacted].com wrote:

> On 1/6/13 5:01 AM, Uli Kusterer wrote:
>
>> What's the legality of hosting these on the web? Do you have
>> permission? I'm pondering whether I could host these on
>> http://hypercard.org -- though I'm not sure my Dreamhost web space
>> includes 800 MB of storage, will have to check.
>
> Good question, I wondered about that myself. Obviously AOL had implicit
> permission, and one could argue that they were public because of that. I
> don't know if AOL claimed copyright but I really doubt it, the work
> would belong to the authors. If so, then we do not have permission
> directly from the authors to redistribute.
>
> So there's that.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].com> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
>

> the work would belong to the authors. If so, then we do not
> have permission directly from the authors to redistribute.

True, but they uploaded them with the intent that they be made available
for download by AOL members, which was millions of people back then. It's hard
to imagine anyone objecting to them being reposted, as long as it's not for
profit.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 1/6/13 9:36 PM, hcheaven@[redacted].comwrote:
>> the work would belong to the authors. If so, then we do not
>> have permission directly from the authors to redistribute.
>
> True, but they uploaded them with the intent that they be made available
> for download by AOL members, which was millions of people back then. It's hard
> to imagine anyone objecting to them being reposted, as long as it's not for
> profit.

From the AOL Terms of Service:
<http://legal.aol.com/terms-of-service/full-terms/>;

"Except as otherwise provided in this TOS, you or the owner of any
content that you post to our Services retain ownership of all rights,
title, and interests in that content. However, by posting content on a
Service, you grant us and our assigns, agents, and licensees the
irrevocable, royalty free, perpetual, worldwide right and license to
use, reproduce, modify, display, remix, perform, distribute,
redistribute, adapt, promote, create derivative works, and syndicate
this content in any medium and through any form of technology or
distribution. We own all rights, title, and interests in any
compilation, collective work or other derivative work created by us
using or incorporating your content (but not your original content)."


The set of files we have might be considered their "compilation" or
"collective work" which they claim rights to.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

On 1/6/13 9:25 PM, Catherine Kunicki wrote:
> I remember going two barreled Yosemite Sam
> about something they took from me without notification.

I'm glad I wasn't there. :)


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

> The set of files we have might be considered their [AOL]
> "compilation" or "collective work" which they claim rights to.

I agree with you in theory, Jacque, but I just can't imagine that anyone at
AOL would care. They're busy trying to keep their heads above water. A
bunch of old stacks would have zero value to them.

I suppose it's conceivable that some author could object to their stack
being reposted, but that seems unlikely to me as long as it wasn't a
commercial stack aand we're not doing this for profit.

But with that said, if anyone is uneasy about posting them, I'd certainly
understand. But I think it's a good idea for them to be archived in multiple
places.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 1/7/13 9:45 PM, hcheaven@[redacted].comwrote:
>> The set of files we have might be considered their [AOL]
>> "compilation" or "collective work" which they claim rights to.
>
> I agree with you in theory, Jacque, but I just can't imagine that anyone at
> AOL would care. They're busy trying to keep their heads above water. A
> bunch of old stacks would have zero value to them.

Not to mention the forum doesn't exist any more, the libraries were all
deleted, and AOL might not even recognize what we have. So yeah, low
risk factor.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

On 08.01.2013, at 05:36, J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com wrote:
> Not to mention the forum doesn't exist any more, the libraries were all
> deleted, and AOL might not even recognize what we have. So yeah, low
> risk factor.


Last but not least: Most of the stacks are probably shareware and have a provision somewhere that permits distribution in not-for-profit ways. Like the Developer Stack.

Cheers,
-- Uli Kusterer
"The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..."
http://www.lookandfeelcast.com