HyperCard Mailing List

Hi,

Here is a more debugged version with a colorized and indenting xtalk editor.. It seems to basically work in Safari but I know there are issues with the text caret disappearing when deleting text in Firefox. Colorizing and indenting editable text on a web page is really hard, there's really no good way to do it!

It's still just a single HTML file so you can download and play with it.

http://thirdhandapp.com/xtalk/

Dan

Dan,

that's quite inspiring! Remember well, many years ago, when i read about
the HyperTalk interpreter and decided to learn about compiler design. Went
through all the dragon books and learnt an awful lot, with exactly the
right amount of fun ....

The javascript code you've delivered is such a cool starting point for
hyper-interesting explorations.

Thank you for that !

Tom

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 2:46 PM, D <dannygelder@[redacted].com wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Here is a more debugged version with a colorized and indenting xtalk
> editor. It seems to basically work in Safari but I know there are issues
> with the text caret disappearing when deleting text in Firefox. Colorizing
> and indenting editable text on a web page is really hard, there's really no
> good way to do it!
>
> It's still just a single HTML file so you can download and play with it.
>
> http://thirdhandapp.com/xtalk/
>
> Dan
>
>
>



--
Tom Fuerstner

-------

(c)2010 ><{{{{{{> tom surfs along!

-------

Keep it private! So, please use my PGP public key for important messages!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It doesn't seem to have "repeat" or "repeat for" "repeat with" implemented

It's still really impressive!



--- On Tue, 2/12/13, Tom Fuerstner <i.script@[redacted].com wrote:

> From: Tom Fuerstner <i.script@[redacted].com
> Subject: Re: [HC] XTalk to JS translator
> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
> Date: Tuesday, February 12, 2013, 11:38 AM
> Dan,
>
> that's quite inspiring! Remember well, many years ago, when
> i read about
> the HyperTalk interpreter and decided to learn about
> compiler design. Went
> through all the dragon books and learnt an awful lot, with
> exactly the
> right amount of fun ....
>
> The javascript code you've delivered is such a cool starting
> point for
> hyper-interesting explorations.
>
> Thank you for that !
>
> Tom
>
> On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 2:46 PM, D <dannygelder@[redacted].com
> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Here is a more debugged version with a colorized and
> indenting xtalk
> > editor. It seems to basically work in Safari but I know
> there are issues
> > with the text caret disappearing when deleting text in
> Firefox. Colorizing
> > and indenting editable text on a web page is really
> hard, there's really no
> > good way to do it!
> >
> > It's still just a single HTML file so you can download
> and play with it.
> >
> > http://thirdhandapp.com/xtalk/
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > 
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Tom Fuerstner
>
> -------
>
> (c)2010  ><{{{{{{°> tom surfs along!
>
> -------
>
> Keep it private!  So, please use my PGP public key for
> important messages!
>
> -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.16 (Darwin)
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> -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>

--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Eric Engle wrote:
>
> It doesn't seem to have "repeat" or "repeat for" "repeat with" implemented
>
> It's still really impressive!
>

I'm curious about something before I push that update. Please fix my xtalk syntax if I don't have it matching yours exactly. In the Chrome browser on a 1.6Ghz processor I get "busyWork: 133 elapsedMS: 67" What kind of speed do you see?

get the ticks
put 10 into busywork
repeat with index = 1 to 10^7
put (busywork*2 + 9) into busywork
put busywork mod 369 into busywork
end repeat
put (the ticks - it)*1000/60.5 into elapsedMs
answer "busyWork:" && busyWork && "elapsedMs:" && elapsedMS


Dan

On seamonkey it does not parse and returns this:

it_var = user_variable_the;
user_variable_busywork = 10 ;
alert("sending user message repeat");
document.getElementById('output').innerHTML = (unknown_xtalk["(busywork*2"]+9)
document.getElementById('output').innerHTML = user_variable_busywork
alert("sending user message end");
document.getElementById('output').innerHTML = unknown_xtalk["(the"]
alert( (new String((new String((new String("busyWork:")+" "+user_variable_busywork))+" "+"elapsedMs:"))+" "+user_variable_elapsedms) );

It doesn't parse because I haven't pushed the update with repeat statements yet. I was just hoping someone would try it in Livecode or something and find out what kind of speed I'm trying to beat here.

--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Eric Engle wrote:
>
> On seamonkey it does not parse and returns this:
>
> it_var = user_variable_the;
> user_variable_busywork = 10 ;
> alert("sending user message repeat");
> document.getElementById('output').innerHTML = (unknown_xtalk["(busywork*2"]+9)
> document.getElementById('output').innerHTML = user_variable_busywork
> alert("sending user message end");
> document.getElementById('output').innerHTML = unknown_xtalk["(the"]
> alert( (new String((new String((new String("busyWork:")+" "+user_variable_busywork))+" "+"elapsedMs:"))+" "+user_variable_elapsedms) );
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 2/13/13, D wrote:
>
> From: D
> Subject: Re: [HC] XTalk to JS translator
> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
> Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 8:01 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Eric Engle wrote:
>
> >
>
> > It doesn't seem to have "repeat" or "repeat for" "repeat with" implemented
>
> >
>
> > It's still really impressive!
>
> >
>
>
>
> I'm curious about something before I push that update. Please fix my xtalk syntax if I don't have it matching yours exactly. In the Chrome browser on a 1.6Ghz processor I get "busyWork: 133 elapsedMS: 67" What kind of speed do you see?
>
>
>
> get the ticks
>
> put 10 into busywork
>
> repeat with index = 1 to 10^7
>
> put (busywork*2 + 9) into busywork
>
> put busywork mod 369 into busywork
>
> end repeat
>
> put (the ticks - it)*1000/60.5 into elapsedMs
>
> answer "busyWork:" && busyWork && "elapsedMs:" && elapsedMS
>
>
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On my 13 inch MacBook Pro Retina:

busyWork: 133 elapsedMs: 3239.669421


On Feb 13, 2013, at 12:39 PM, "D" <dannygelder@[redacted].com wrote:

> It doesn't parse because I haven't pushed the update with repeat statements yet. I was just hoping someone would try it in Livecode or something and find out what kind of speed I'm trying to beat here.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On a iMac Intel i3 4GB Ram:
busyWork: 133 elapsedMs: 1190.082645



--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Colin Holgate wrote:
>
> On my 13 inch MacBook Pro Retina:
>
> busyWork: 133 elapsedMs: 3239.669421
>
>
> On Feb 13, 2013, at 12:39 PM, "D" wrote:
>
> > It doesn't parse because I haven't pushed the update with repeat statements yet. I was just hoping someone would try it in Livecode or something and find out what kind of speed I'm trying to beat here.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Interesting prototype, what is it coded in ? Javascript ?

--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Alain Farmer wrote:
>
> Interesting prototype, what is it coded in ? Javascript ?
>
>

Yes, as are 99.9999% of web pages. Here is a link to some more information about the JavaScript language:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript

Paging through Wikipedia's excellent summary, I see the continuation of many HyperTalk features, such as dynamic typing, runtime evaluation, and close binding with a hierarchical document object model. In general, you can think of it as an xTalk by alien nerds.

It's gone through a fair amount of forced evolution over the years and can be considered battle-hardened. One particular book that I own, called JavaScript: The Good Parts, was really helpful in my developing good technique; it is (or is about) a strictly defined, useful subset that is compatible with nearly all implementations.

In general, I'd have to say that the odds of JavaScript disappearing in the future, or at least being forced to change so radically that pages break, is 0%. It's too fundamental to the Internet as we know it and there is too much money. There are a number of interesting projects meant to extend it. One is Microsoft's TypeScript which is nothing more than a set of syntax sugars. Sadly it's Microsoft so it cannot be trusted.
http://www.typescriptlang.org

I'm excited about using it as an execution layer for xTalk and don't anticipate any kind of major problems. I guess I'll just bop along adding things when I'm not momentarily busy with work, school or life.

Dan

I am already sold on the merits of Javascript. It's a SOLID choice, bar none given its ubiquity. Let's make it happen. :-)



________________________________
From: D <dannygelder@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 5:29:28 AM
Subject: Re: [HC] XTalk to JS translator


 


--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Alain Farmer wrote:
>
> Interesting prototype, what is it coded in ? Javascript ?
>
>

Yes, as are 99.9999% of web pages. Here is a link to some more information about the JavaScript language:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript

Paging through Wikipedia's excellent summary, I see the continuation of many HyperTalk features, such as dynamic typing, runtime evaluation, and close binding with a hierarchical document object model. In general, you can think of it as an xTalk by alien nerds.

It's gone through a fair amount of forced evolution over the years and can be considered battle-hardened. One particular book that I own, called JavaScript: The Good Parts, was really helpful in my developing good technique; it is (or is about) a strictly defined, useful subset that is compatible with nearly all implementations.

In general, I'd have to say that the odds of JavaScript disappearing in the future, or at least being forced to change so radically that pages break, is 0%. It's too fundamental to the Internet as we know it and there is too much money. There are a number of interesting projects meant to extend it. One is Microsoft's TypeScript which is nothing more than a set of syntax sugars. Sadly it's Microsoft so it cannot be trusted.
http://www.typescriptlang.org

I'm excited about using it as an execution layer for xTalk and don't anticipate any kind of major problems. I guess I'll just bop along adding things when I'm not momentarily busy with work, school or life.

Dan




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, "D" <dannygelder@...> wrote:
> In general, I'd have to say that the odds of JavaScript disappearing
> in the future, or at least being forced to change so radically that
> pages break, is 0%. It's too fundamental to the Internet as we know
> it and there is too much money.

JavaScript is definitely well worth learning, and with so many great resources around there's hardly any reason not to. Given the role of the browser in modern workflows, I would consider it the essential second language.

I still prefer xTalks for desktop and mobile, and often use xTalks to generate HTML/CSS/JS for web ports and production workflows, but JS is a wonderful thing in browsers, well worth the time to learn.


> There are a number of interesting projects meant to extend it. One
> is Microsoft's TypeScript which is nothing more than a set of syntax
> sugars. Sadly it's Microsoft so it cannot be trusted.
> http://www.typescriptlang.org

Agreed. Until we see some radical change of direction from Microsoft that's completely unlike anything we've ever seen from them before, we already know their general disdain for standards and they've provided no evidence that they're interested in doing anything beyond attempting vendor lock-in.

Given their market share I'd love to be wrong, but given their history I don't think it's likely.