[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 1 of 41)
e9e32018fc1c66afdfbd65ffa5 <zack112358@[redacted].com>
Wednesday, 27-Mar-2013 21:32 GMT
I was wondering if anyone knew where I could find a really old SuperCard? Supercard forums aren't much help, since I'm looking for the very old versions of SuperCard, but that came out back when HyperCard was newish, so I was wondering if someone here might have some idea where I could find (or have) SC 3.0.x or SC 2.x.
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 2 of 41)
DTS <daretospam@[redacted].com>
Thursday, 28-Mar-2013 02:46 GMT
Macintosh Garden.
On Wednesday, March 27, 2013, e9e32018fc1c66afdfbd65ffa5 <
zack112358@[redacted].com wrote:
>
>
> I was wondering if anyone knew where I could find a really old SuperCard?
Supercard forums aren't much help, since I'm looking for the very old
versions of SuperCard, but that came out back when HyperCard was newish, so
I was wondering if someone here might have some idea where I could find (or
have) SC 3.0.x or SC 2.x.
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 3 of 41)
andrew123ferguson <andrewferguson500@[redacted].com>
Thursday, 28-Mar-2013 13:42 GMT
The Macintosh Garden has two copies available for download.
SuperCard 1.6.1 and SuperCard 3.5.2
http://macintoshgarden.org/Andrew
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, DTS <daretospam@...> wrote:
>
> Macintosh Garden.
>
> On Wednesday, March 27, 2013, e9e32018fc1c66afdfbd65ffa5 <
> zack112358@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone knew where I could find a really old SuperCard?
> Supercard forums aren't much help, since I'm looking for the very old
> versions of SuperCard, but that came out back when HyperCard was newish, so
> I was wondering if someone here might have some idea where I could find (or
> have) SC 3.0.x or SC 2.x.
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 4 of 41)
Z J McCord <zack112358@[redacted].com>
Thursday, 28-Mar-2013 13:57 GMT
Trouble is, I'm looking for 2.x or 3.0.x specifically (ideally a legitimate
copy). I'm using the garden's 3.5.x copy right now, but it's too new for
the purpose.
On Mar 28, 2013 9:42 AM, "andrew123ferguson" <andrewferguson500@[redacted].com
wrote:
> **
>
>
>
>
> The Macintosh Garden has two copies available for download.
> SuperCard 1.6.1 and SuperCard 3.5.2
>
>
http://macintoshgarden.org/>
> Andrew
>
> --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, DTS <daretospam@...> wrote:
> >
> > Macintosh Garden.
> >
> > On Wednesday, March 27, 2013, e9e32018fc1c66afdfbd65ffa5 <
> > zack112358@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I was wondering if anyone knew where I could find a really old
> SuperCard?
> > Supercard forums aren't much help, since I'm looking for the very old
> > versions of SuperCard, but that came out back when HyperCard was newish,
> so
> > I was wondering if someone here might have some idea where I could find
> (or
> > have) SC 3.0.x or SC 2.x.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 5 of 41)
Uli Kusterer <Witness.of.TeachText@[redacted].net>
Thursday, 28-Mar-2013 17:58 GMT
I own 3.0, but I don't want to sell it. If I can check anything you want to find out, though, let me know.
Cheers,
-- Uli Kusterer
"The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..."
http://www.zathras.deOn Mar 28, 2013, at 2:57 PM, Z J McCord <zack112358@[redacted].com wrote:
> Trouble is, I'm looking for 2.x or 3.0.x specifically (ideally a legitimate
> copy). I'm using the garden's 3.5.x copy right now, but it's too new for
> the purpose.
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 6 of 41)
Z J McCord <zack112358@[redacted].com>
Thursday, 28-Mar-2013 19:56 GMT
Thanks, all, for your suggestions. Uli, thank you for the offer --- I'm not
yet sure whether I'll take you up on it.
On Mar 28, 2013 1:58 PM, "Uli Kusterer" <Witness.of.TeachText@[redacted].net
wrote:
> **
>
>
> I own 3.0, but I don't want to sell it. If I can check anything you want
> to find out, though, let me know.
>
> Cheers,
> -- Uli Kusterer
> "The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..."
>
http://www.zathras.de>
> On Mar 28, 2013, at 2:57 PM, Z J McCord <zack112358@[redacted].com wrote:
> > Trouble is, I'm looking for 2.x or 3.0.x specifically (ideally a
> legitimate
> > copy). I'm using the garden's 3.5.x copy right now, but it's too new for
> > the purpose.
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 7 of 41)
richard g <Ambassador@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 18:54 GMT
Did Macintosh Garden acquire distribution rights for those versions?
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, "andrew123ferguson" <andrewferguson500@....> wrote:
>
>
>
> The Macintosh Garden has two copies available for download.
> SuperCard 1.6.1 and SuperCard 3.5.2
>
>
http://macintoshgarden.org/>
> Andrew
>
> --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, DTS <daretospam@> wrote:
> >
> > Macintosh Garden.
> >
> > On Wednesday, March 27, 2013, e9e32018fc1c66afdfbd65ffa5 <
> > zack112358@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I was wondering if anyone knew where I could find a really old SuperCard?
> > Supercard forums aren't much help, since I'm looking for the very old
> > versions of SuperCard, but that came out back when HyperCard was newish, so
> > I was wondering if someone here might have some idea where I could find (or
> > have) SC 3.0.x or SC 2.x.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 8 of 41)
Mark Schonewille <m.schonewille@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 19:07 GMT
What do you think?
--
Best regards,
Mark Schonewille
Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage:
http://economy-x-talk.comTwitter:
http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammerKvK: 50277553
Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces.
http://www.color-converter.comWe have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote.
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 9 of 41)
Paul Foraker <paul.foraker@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 19:10 GMT
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 11:54 AM, richard g <Ambassador@[redacted].comwrote:
> Did Macintosh Garden acquire distribution rights for those versions?
>
> --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, "andrew123ferguson" <andrewferguson500@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > The Macintosh Garden has two copies available for download.
> > SuperCard 1.6.1 and SuperCard 3.5.2
> >
> >
http://macintoshgarden.org/>
I don't think that's how the copyright law works. As the latest Supreme
Court ruling indicated, once you buy something, you can sell it or give it
away (single copy, of course).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 10 of 41)
richard g <Ambassador@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 19:23 GMT
I appreciate your interest in my personal opinion, but however interesting it may be it's of no consequence. The only thing that matters is the legal standing, which my opinion can't alter.
Both traceroute and whosis suggest the site is hosted in Australia, which is a signatory to the Berne agreement. This would imply that the site manager may be in violation of applicable international law, perhaps willfully so, unless someone can offer anything to suggest that he's obtained permissions for that distribution.
Given that many of the members of this list are professional developers, and that SuperCard remains a viable product dependent on upgrade revenue, I would be surprised if anyone here knowingly suggested a pirate site.
So my hope is there's something to provide some comfort that this list hasn't descended to the level of a common pirate board.
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Mark Schonewille <m.schonewille@...> wrote:
>
> What do you think?
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> Homepage:
http://economy-x-talk.com> Twitter:
http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer> KvK: 50277553
>
> Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces.
http://www.color-converter.com>
> We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 29 mrt 2013, at 19:54, richard g wrote:
>
> > Did Macintosh Garden acquire distribution rights for those versions?
> >
> >
>
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 11 of 41)
richard g <Ambassador@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 19:30 GMT
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Paul Foraker <paul.foraker@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 11:54 AM, richard g <Ambassador@...>wrote:
>
> > Did Macintosh Garden acquire distribution rights for those versions?
> >
> > --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, "andrew123ferguson" <andrewferguson500@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Macintosh Garden has two copies available for download.
> > > SuperCard 1.6.1 and SuperCard 3.5.2
> > >
> > >
http://macintoshgarden.org/> >
>
>
> I don't think that's how the copyright law works. As the latest Supreme
> Court ruling indicated, once you buy something, you can sell it or give it
> away (single copy, of course).
Yes, the recent SCOTUS ruling on that was very encouraging, esp. for those importing text books.
But posting copyrighted software on a public Internet site seems unlikely to limit the downloads to just 1.
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 12 of 41)
Mark Schonewille <m.schonewille@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 19:37 GMT
I think you're a troll.
--
Best regards,
Mark Schonewille
Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage:
http://economy-x-talk.comTwitter:
http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammerKvK: 50277553
Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces.
http://www.color-converter.comWe have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote.
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 13 of 41)
DTS <daretospam@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 19:44 GMT
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:23 PM, richard g <Ambassador@[redacted].comwrote:
>
> I appreciate your interest in my personal opinion, but however
> interesting it may be it's of no consequence. The only thing that matters
> is the legal standing, which my opinion can't alter.
> ....
>
> So my hope is there's something to provide some comfort that this list
> hasn't descended to the level of a common pirate board.
>
I do not think he is that interested in your opinion. If you are not a
legal entity representing the company then there is no need to push your
moral perspective on the list. The original poster is clearly looking for
out of print software which may be classified as abandonware which is an
evolving concept that again does not need to be argued here unless you are
a legal representative.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 14 of 41)
richard g <Ambassador@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 19:44 GMT
Your opinion of me and so many others has been thoroughly expressed in many venues.
For the benefit of those who may not know me, I'm merely a professional developer who's also a personal friend of each of the publishers and many of the team members of SuperCard since v1.0.
If there's a problem moving an older SC project into a more recent version that can be legally obtained, I'll bet there's a way to resolve it. Mark Lucas, the lead SC engineer, generally does a very good job with backward compatibility, and can be quite accommodating.
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Mark Schonewille <m.schonewille@...> wrote:
>
> I think you're a troll.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> Homepage:
http://economy-x-talk.com> Twitter:
http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer> KvK: 50277553
>
> Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces.
http://www.color-converter.com>
> We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 29 mrt 2013, at 20:23, richard g wrote:
>
> > I appreciate your interest in my personal opinion, but however interesting it may be it's of no consequence. The only thing that matters is the legal standing, which my opinion can't alter.
> >
> > Both traceroute and whosis suggest the site is hosted in Australia, which is a signatory to the Berne agreement. This would imply that the site manager may be in violation of applicable international law, perhaps willfully so, unless someone can offer anything to suggest that he's obtained permissions for that distribution.
> >
> > Given that many of the members of this list are professional developers, and that SuperCard remains a viable product dependent on upgrade revenue, I would be surprised if anyone here knowingly suggested a pirate site.
> >
> > So my hope is there's something to provide some comfort that this list hasn't descended to the level of a common pirate board.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 15 of 41)
Mark Schonewille <m.schonewille@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 19:55 GMT
So, you're a developer and not a lawyer and yet you want to discuss legal issues on a mailing list for software users.
If you really cared, you could try to sue the owner of the website, but I think it is useless. On the other hand, if the rightful copyright holder sends a friendly letter to the site owner, they will remove the software. Therefore, this is a non-issue.
--
Best regards,
Mark Schonewille
Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage:
http://economy-x-talk.comTwitter:
http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammerKvK: 50277553
Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces.
http://www.color-converter.comWe have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote.
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 16 of 41)
J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 20:01 GMT
On 3/29/13 2:44 PM, DTS wrote:
> The original poster is clearly looking for
> out of print software which may be classified as abandonware which is an
> evolving concept that again does not need to be argued here unless you are
> a legal representative.
Older versions of a currently shipping product aren't abandonware and
are still under copyright law. It is illegal to redistribute Mac OS 9,
Adobe Photoshop 3.0, and so forth. (Not a personal, for-sale copy, but
widespread distribution.)
If I were looking for an out of print product, I'd contact the company
to see if they could provide it.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software |
http://www.hyperactivesw.com
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 17 of 41)
richard g <Ambassador@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 20:04 GMT
My apologies if I ruffled any feathers, "totalimposter".
We agree that opinions are of no value here. We can wish all sorts of things with regard to how copyright law works, but the best thing that could be said for so-called "abandonware" is that it's a grey area, perhaps only because the copyright owner is no longer in business to defend their rights. If you have links to any court ruling allowing republishing of copyrighted works in that manner, it would be much more helpful than, as you say, "pushing your moral perspective on the list."
The key point here is that SuperCard isn't "abandonware". All rights were transferred to the current owner, Solutions Etc. which very much remains in business and is quite actively selling and enhancing the product.
It's also worth noting that the OP wasn't asking for pirate links, but simply for a way to obtain a specific version.
While the OP's ID here isn't clear, I believe I've already corresponded with him previously on his. If it's the same person, he's someone I've known for many years, an above-board person simply looking for a solution to a problem. But as a professional developer himself I'm pretty sure he's only looking for a way to solve the problem that's unquestionably legal, so the Mac Garden site probably wouldn't interest him anyway.
If anyone here has a single user license they can sell, that may be a solution.
Alternatively, the OP is welcome to write me and I'll see what I may have among my licenses or other options with the consent of the publisher.
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, DTS <daretospam@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:23 PM, richard g <Ambassador@...>wrote:
> >
> > I appreciate your interest in my personal opinion, but however
> > interesting it may be it's of no consequence. The only thing that matters
> > is the legal standing, which my opinion can't alter.
> > ....
> >
> > So my hope is there's something to provide some comfort that this list
> > hasn't descended to the level of a common pirate board.
> >
>
> I do not think he is that interested in your opinion. If you are not a
> legal entity representing the company then there is no need to push your
> moral perspective on the list. The original poster is clearly looking for
> out of print software which may be classified as abandonware which is an
> evolving concept that again does not need to be argued here unless you are
> a legal representative.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 18 of 41)
DTS <daretospam@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 20:26 GMT
Yes, I am just personally tired of people being morality police and
offering their opinions on everything. A more constructive approach is to
do something to help the situation. "Friends" of developers and developers
can try to leverage their contacts to encourage these companies that
managed to survive, or even copyright holders of defunct companies to make
their very old titles freeware or for sale at a reasonable cost and offer
them for download legitimately on their websites. Or at least just inform
the list the developer may be willing to help in the first place instead of
asking about a website's "distribution rights" when the answer to the
question is obvious and then getting into the issues of "piracy".
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 1:04 PM, richard g <Ambassador@[redacted].comwrote:
> **
>
>
> My apologies if I ruffled any feathers, "totalimposter".
>
> We agree that opinions are of no value here. We can wish all sorts of
> things with regard to how copyright law works, but the best thing that
> could be said for so-called "abandonware" is that it's a grey area, perhaps
> only because the copyright owner is no longer in business to defend their
> rights. If you have links to any court ruling allowing republishing of
> copyrighted works in that manner, it would be much more helpful than, as
> you say, "pushing your moral perspective on the list."
>
> The key point here is that SuperCard isn't "abandonware". All rights were
> transferred to the current owner, Solutions Etc. which very much remains in
> business and is quite actively selling and enhancing the product.
>
> It's also worth noting that the OP wasn't asking for pirate links, but
> simply for a way to obtain a specific version.
>
> While the OP's ID here isn't clear, I believe I've already corresponded
> with him previously on his. If it's the same person, he's someone I've
> known for many years, an above-board person simply looking for a solution
> to a problem. But as a professional developer himself I'm pretty sure he's
> only looking for a way to solve the problem that's unquestionably legal, so
> the Mac Garden site probably wouldn't interest him anyway.
>
> If anyone here has a single user license they can sell, that may be a
> solution.
>
> Alternatively, the OP is welcome to write me and I'll see what I may have
> among my licenses or other options with the consent of the publisher.
>
>
> --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, DTS <daretospam@...> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 12:23 PM, richard g <Ambassador@...>wrote:
>
> > >
> > > I appreciate your interest in my personal opinion, but however
> > > interesting it may be it's of no consequence. The only thing that
> matters
> > > is the legal standing, which my opinion can't alter.
> > > ....
> > >
> > > So my hope is there's something to provide some comfort that this list
> > > hasn't descended to the level of a common pirate board.
> > >
> >
> > I do not think he is that interested in your opinion. If you are not a
> > legal entity representing the company then there is no need to push your
> > moral perspective on the list. The original poster is clearly looking for
> > out of print software which may be classified as abandonware which is an
> > evolving concept that again does not need to be argued here unless you
> are
> > a legal representative.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 19 of 41)
Mark Schonewille <m.schonewille@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 20:57 GMT
So, why don't you just send a message to Solutions Etc. if you think they don't know about it already and leave it to them?
Btw. are you sure that Solutions Etc. they also have all distribution rights for the versions that are on Macintosh Garden? Perhaps Solutions Etc. only bought the source code? Maybe this "problem" it isn't of their concern at all.
--
Best regards,
Mark Schonewille
Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage:
http://economy-x-talk.comTwitter:
http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammerKvK: 50277553
Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces.
http://www.color-converter.comWe have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote.
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 21 of 41)
J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 21:29 GMT
On 3/29/13 3:57 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:
> Btw. are you sure that Solutions Etc. they also have all distribution
> rights for the versions that are on Macintosh Garden? Perhaps
> Solutions Etc. only bought the source code? Maybe this "problem" it
> isn't of their concern at all.
It doesn't matter whether the software is available at the site, or if
it is, who's problem it is. I took a look and everything on the site is
a copyright violation. Copyrights last 75 years, and whether or not the
software is in active development or not, no one can distribute it until
the copyright expires.
I'm at a loss why you are defending any of this. It makes you appear to
support piracy.
Apologies to those who don't want to read about morality here. I had a
software title of my own priated and illegally distributed and this
issue hits very close to home.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software |
http://www.hyperactivesw.com
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 22 of 41)
Mark Schonewille <m.schonewille@[redacted].com>
Friday, 29-Mar-2013 22:11 GMT
Jacque,
Please, read my e-mails again. You'll see that I didn't write one
word in advocacy of piracy.
--
Economy-x-Talk
Consultancy and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.comDownload Color Converter at
http://www.color-converter.comOp 29-mrt-2013, om 22:29 heeft J. Landman Gay het volgende geschreven:
>
> It doesn't matter whether the software is available at the site, or if
> it is, who's problem it is. I took a look and everything on the
> site is
> a copyright violation. Copyrights last 75 years, and whether or not
> the
> software is in active development or not, no one can distribute it
> until
> the copyright expires.
>
> I'm at a loss why you are defending any of this. It makes you
> appear to
> support piracy.
>
> Apologies to those who don't want to read about morality here. I had a
> software title of my own priated and illegally distributed and this
> issue hits very close to home.
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 23 of 41)
geradamas <richmond@[redacted].com>
Saturday, 30-Mar-2013 08:42 GMT
This is a fairly pointless discussion as all software that has not been made available under a FREE license is copyright as modern computers have not been in existence for 75 years.
The best way to work (unless one has no morals about software) is to assume that any software is copyright unless explicitly stated otherwise.
I have a set of Hypercard 2 disks in my attic in Scotland; while I may give them to someone (and, at that point, I should delete any installed versions on computers I own), sell them them for a princely sum, or swap them for a Christmas cake, what I should not do is start churning out multiple copies of them, or make them available in such a way that others can make multiple copies.
The pirate sites' defence that it is not them that make the copies (i.e. you do by downloading them) is disingenuous in the extreme.
I wrote a program when I was at University in 1986; a PASCAL thing to make concordances; hopelessly outdated and nobody would touch it with a bargepole - notwithstanding that, anybody wanting to use it would have to OK with with me as 1986 was not 75 years ago.
A while ago I got stuck, needing a copy of an early version of Runtime Revolution Livecode that I owned but had mislaid. I was able to obtain a copy by what are, frankly, illegal means, but I then used my password that I had from my original purchase to get the thing working. In fact what I downloaded was a Mac copy of LC 2.6, but as I had a password for Dreamcard 2.6, when I entered my password I was restricted to the slightly limited capabilities offered by Dreamcard;
but that was as things should be.
If the chap who started this thread (???) has a legitimate password for Supercard 3 (or whatever) then s/he can download a pirate copy and use his/her legit password; although this is not in any way an ideal solution as it encourages pirates to continue making illegal software available for download..
The thing that is problematic is that I don't know if Supercard 3 was password protected. If it was not then nobody can justify an illegal download at all.
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Mark Schonewille <m.schonewille@...> wrote:
>
> Jacque,
>
> Please, read my e-mails again. You'll see that I didn't write one
> word in advocacy of piracy.
>
> --
>
> Economy-x-Talk
> Consultancy and Software Engineering
>
http://economy-x-talk.com>
> Download Color Converter at
http://www.color-converter.com>
> Op 29-mrt-2013, om 22:29 heeft J. Landman Gay het volgende geschreven:
> >
> > It doesn't matter whether the software is available at the site, or if
> > it is, who's problem it is. I took a look and everything on the
> > site is
> > a copyright violation. Copyrights last 75 years, and whether or not
> > the
> > software is in active development or not, no one can distribute it
> > until
> > the copyright expires.
> >
> > I'm at a loss why you are defending any of this. It makes you
> > appear to
> > support piracy.
> >
> > Apologies to those who don't want to read about morality here. I had a
> > software title of my own priated and illegally distributed and this
> > issue hits very close to home.
>
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 24 of 41)
Uli Kusterer <Witness.of.TeachText@[redacted].net>
Saturday, 30-Mar-2013 16:09 GMT
You need a serial number to run SuperCard 3, yes.
Cheers,
-- Uli Kusterer
"The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..."
On 30.03.2013, at 09:42, geradamas <richmond@[redacted].maclaunchcom> wrote:
> The thing that is problematic is that I don't know if Supercard 3 was password protected. If it was not then nobody can justify an illegal download at all.
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 25 of 41)
Michael Mays <michael@[redacted].org>
Sunday, 31-Mar-2013 13:15 GMT
haha ... Richard has been hiding under this bridge for a long long time :)
Michael
On Mar 29, 2013, at 2:37 PM, Mark Schonewille <m.schonewille@economy-x-talk..com> wrote:
> I think you're a troll.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> Homepage:
http://economy-x-talk.com> Twitter:
http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer> KvK: 50277553
>
> Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces.
http://www.color-converter.com>
> We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote.
>
>
> On 29 mrt 2013, at 20:23, richard g wrote:
>
>> I appreciate your interest in my personal opinion, but however interesting it may be it's of no consequence. The only thing that matters is the legal standing, which my opinion can't alter.
>>
>> Both traceroute and whosis suggest the site is hosted in Australia, which is a signatory to the Berne agreement. This would imply that the site manager may be in violation of applicable international law, perhaps willfully so, unless someone can offer anything to suggest that he's obtained permissions for that distribution.
>>
>> Given that many of the members of this list are professional developers, and that SuperCard remains a viable product dependent on upgrade revenue, I would be surprised if anyone here knowingly suggested a pirate site.
>>
>> So my hope is there's something to provide some comfort that this list hasn't descended to the level of a common pirate board.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 26 of 41)
Michael Mays <michael@[redacted].org>
Sunday, 31-Mar-2013 13:46 GMT
Mark you know Apple did not give Macintosh Garden the right to distribute HyperCard much less any right to the source code. If this were 2113 maybe you could argue it was "abandonware". The owner of software does have the right to request their software to be removed. But the fact that they have or haven't doesn't make MG's activities any less illegal.
Michael
On Mar 29, 2013, at 4:29 PM, J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com wrote:
> On 3/29/13 3:57 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:
>
>> Btw. are you sure that Solutions Etc. they also have all distribution
>> rights for the versions that are on Macintosh Garden? Perhaps
>> Solutions Etc. only bought the source code? Maybe this "problem" it
>> isn't of their concern at all.
>
> It doesn't matter whether the software is available at the site, or if
> it is, who's problem it is. I took a look and everything on the site is
> a copyright violation. Copyrights last 75 years, and whether or not the
> software is in active development or not, no one can distribute it until
> the copyright expires.
>
> I'm at a loss why you are defending any of this. It makes you appear to
> support piracy.
>
> Apologies to those who don't want to read about morality here. I had a
> software title of my own priated and illegally distributed and this
> issue hits very close to home.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 27 of 41)
geradamas <richmond@[redacted].com>
Sunday, 31-Mar-2013 18:26 GMT
Hey, guess what! I'm a screaming genius! I found this e-mail address:
hello@[redacted].us
and, surprise, surprise, it's the SuperCard people's e-mail,
so, instead of all this faffing about, surely the sensible thing would
be to drop them a line and ask whether they could sell/give you a copy of SuperCard 3.0.
Clever stuff, what?
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Michael Mays <michael@...> wrote:
>
> Mark you know Apple did not give Macintosh Garden the right to distribute HyperCard much less any right to the source code. If this were 2113 maybe you could argue it was "abandonware". The owner of software does have the right to request their software to be removed. But the fact that they have or haven't doesn't make MG's activities any less illegal.
>
> Michael
>
> On Mar 29, 2013, at 4:29 PM, J. Landman Gay <jacque@...> wrote:
>
> > On 3/29/13 3:57 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:
> >
> >> Btw. are you sure that Solutions Etc. they also have all distribution
> >> rights for the versions that are on Macintosh Garden? Perhaps
> >> Solutions Etc. only bought the source code? Maybe this "problem" it
> >> isn't of their concern at all.
> >
> > It doesn't matter whether the software is available at the site, or if
> > it is, who's problem it is. I took a look and everything on the site is
> > a copyright violation. Copyrights last 75 years, and whether or not the
> > software is in active development or not, no one can distribute it until
> > the copyright expires.
> >
> > I'm at a loss why you are defending any of this. It makes you appear to
> > support piracy.
> >
> > Apologies to those who don't want to read about morality here. I had a
> > software title of my own priated and illegally distributed and this
> > issue hits very close to home.
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 28 of 41)
geradamas <richmond@[redacted].com>
Sunday, 31-Mar-2013 18:27 GMT
That's hello AT
supercard.us--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, "geradamas" <richmond@...> wrote:
>
> Hey, guess what! I'm a screaming genius! I found this e-mail address:
>
> hello@...
>
> and, surprise, surprise, it's the SuperCard people's e-mail,
>
> so, instead of all this faffing about, surely the sensible thing would
> be to drop them a line and ask whether they could sell/give you a copy of SuperCard 3.0.
>
> Clever stuff, what?
>
> --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Michael Mays <michael@> wrote:
> >
> > Mark you know Apple did not give Macintosh Garden the right to distribute HyperCard much less any right to the source code. If this were 2113 maybe you could argue it was "abandonware". The owner of software does have the right to request their software to be removed. But the fact that they have or haven't doesn't make MG's activities any less illegal.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > On Mar 29, 2013, at 4:29 PM, J. Landman Gay <jacque@> wrote:
> >
> > > On 3/29/13 3:57 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:
> > >
> > >> Btw. are you sure that Solutions Etc. they also have all distribution
> > >> rights for the versions that are on Macintosh Garden? Perhaps
> > >> Solutions Etc. only bought the source code? Maybe this "problem" it
> > >> isn't of their concern at all.
> > >
> > > It doesn't matter whether the software is available at the site, or if
> > > it is, who's problem it is. I took a look and everything on the site is
> > > a copyright violation. Copyrights last 75 years, and whether or not the
> > > software is in active development or not, no one can distribute it until
> > > the copyright expires.
> > >
> > > I'm at a loss why you are defending any of this. It makes you appear to
> > > support piracy.
> > >
> > > Apologies to those who don't want to read about morality here. I had a
> > > software title of my own priated and illegally distributed and this
> > > issue hits very close to home.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 29 of 41)
Mark Schonewille <m.schonewille@[redacted].com>
Sunday, 31-Mar-2013 18:43 GMT
Michael,
I never said Macintosh Gardenôs activities are legal (nor did I write
they are illegal). Also, the message you replied to wasn't mine and this
thread wasn't about HyperCard but about SuperCard. As I made clear
already, I think this discussion doesn't make any sense.
--
Best regards,
Mark Schonewille
Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage:
http://economy-x-talk.comTwitter:
http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammerKvK: 50277553
Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other
colour spaces.
http://www.color-converter.comWe have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote.
On 3/31/2013 15:46, Michael Mays wrote:
> Mark you know Apple did not give Macintosh Garden the right to distribute HyperCard much less any right to the source code. If this were 2113 maybe you could argue it was "abandonware". The owner of software does have the right to request their software to be removed. But the fact that they have or haven't doesn't make MG's activities any less illegal.
>
> Michael
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 30 of 41)
Uli Kusterer <Witness.of.TeachText@[redacted].net>
Monday, 01-Apr-2013 18:30 GMT
Would be curious to hear whether that worked out.
SuperCard 3.0 was three companies ago, IIRC (My copy is from Allegiant, after that came IncWell, then the current owners, Solutions Etc.), and AFAIK the editor included in SuperCard 3 was not transferred from Allegiant. I'm not sure whether that was a technical problem (lost disks ...?) or a legal one, but it might have impact on their ability to hand out licenses for SC 3..
Cheers,
-- Uli Kusterer
http://stacksmith.orgOn 31.03.2013, at 20:26, geradamas <richmond@[redacted].maclaunchcom> wrote:
> Hey, guess what! I'm a screaming genius! I found this e-mail address:
>
> hello ...
>
> and, surprise, surprise, it's the SuperCard people's e-mail,
>
> so, instead of all this faffing about, surely the sensible thing would
> be to drop them a line and ask whether they could sell/give you a copy of SuperCard 3.0.
>
> Clever stuff, what?
>
> --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Michael Mays <michael@...> wrote:
>>
>> Mark you know Apple did not give Macintosh Garden the right to distribute HyperCard much less any right to the source code. If this were 2113 maybe you could argue it was "abandonware". The owner of software does have the right to request their software to be removed. But the fact that they have or haven't doesn't make MG's activities any less illegal.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Mar 29, 2013, at 4:29 PM, J. Landman Gay <jacque@...> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/29/13 3:57 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:
>>>
>>>> Btw. are you sure that Solutions Etc. they also have all distribution
>>>> rights for the versions that are on Macintosh Garden? Perhaps
>>>> Solutions Etc. only bought the source code? Maybe this "problem" it
>>>> isn't of their concern at all.
>>>
>>> It doesn't matter whether the software is available at the site, or if
>>> it is, who's problem it is. I took a look and everything on the site is
>>> a copyright violation. Copyrights last 75 years, and whether or not the
>>> software is in active development or not, no one can distribute it until
>>> the copyright expires.
>>>
>>> I'm at a loss why you are defending any of this. It makes you appear to
>>> support piracy.
>>>
>>> Apologies to those who don't want to read about morality here. I had a
>>> software title of my own priated and illegally distributed and this
>>> issue hits very close to home.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 31 of 41)
geradamas <richmond@[redacted].com>
Tuesday, 02-Apr-2013 17:48 GMT
Hello Richmond,
Thank you for your interest in SuperCard. There is no need for an older version of SuperCard to access and continue working with projects authored in older versions. SuperCard 4.7 is able to convert these projects to the current file format. Moreover, version 3.0 is not compatible under modern hardware running Mac OS X. There would be no way to run it unless you had access to the old 'Classic' environment.
You can order the current version of SuperCard from our website at:
http://supercard.us/Purchase/orderFULL.htmlPlease feel free to contact us should you have any additional questions.
Regards,
SuperCard Customer Support
Solutions Etcetera
On Apr 1, 2013, at 11:47 PM, Richmond <richmondmathewson@[redacted].com wrote:
> I would rather like to buy, beg or borrow a copy of
> Supercard 3.0 to open, possibly, edit some old
> stacks given to me by a friend.
>
> Could you please inform me whether I can buy a copy of Supercard 3.0
> from you?
>
> sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Uli Kusterer <Witness.of.TeachText@...> wrote:
>
> Would be curious to hear whether that worked out.
>
> SuperCard 3.0 was three companies ago, IIRC (My copy is from Allegiant, after that came IncWell, then the current owners, Solutions Etc.), and AFAIK the editor included in SuperCard 3 was not transferred from Allegiant. I'm not sure whether that was a technical problem (lost disks ...?) or a legal one, but it might have impact on their ability to hand out licenses for SC 3.
>
> Cheers,
> -- Uli Kusterer
>
http://stacksmith.org>
>
> On 31.03.2013, at 20:26, geradamas <richmond@...> wrote:
> > Hey, guess what! I'm a screaming genius! I found this e-mail address:
> >
> > hello ...
> >
> > and, surprise, surprise, it's the SuperCard people's e-mail,
> >
> > so, instead of all this faffing about, surely the sensible thing would
> > be to drop them a line and ask whether they could sell/give you a copy of SuperCard 3.0.
> >
> > Clever stuff, what?
> >
> > --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Michael Mays <michael@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Mark you know Apple did not give Macintosh Garden the right to distribute HyperCard much less any right to the source code. If this were 2113 maybe you could argue it was "abandonware". The owner of software does have the right to request their software to be removed. But the fact that they have or haven't doesn't make MG's activities any less illegal.
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >> On Mar 29, 2013, at 4:29 PM, J. Landman Gay <jacque@> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 3/29/13 3:57 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Btw. are you sure that Solutions Etc. they also have all distribution
> >>>> rights for the versions that are on Macintosh Garden? Perhaps
> >>>> Solutions Etc. only bought the source code? Maybe this "problem" it
> >>>> isn't of their concern at all.
> >>>
> >>> It doesn't matter whether the software is available at the site, or if
> >>> it is, who's problem it is. I took a look and everything on the site is
> >>> a copyright violation. Copyrights last 75 years, and whether or not the
> >>> software is in active development or not, no one can distribute it until
> >>> the copyright expires.
> >>>
> >>> I'm at a loss why you are defending any of this. It makes you appear to
> >>> support piracy.
> >>>
> >>> Apologies to those who don't want to read about morality here. I had a
> >>> software title of my own priated and illegally distributed and this
> >>> issue hits very close to home.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 32 of 41)
geradamas <richmond@[redacted].com>
Tuesday, 02-Apr-2013 17:50 GMT
The reply from the SuperCard people, especially "SuperCard 4.7 is able to convert these projects to the current file format." makes me wonder if 'Sunny Jim' wasn't just fishing for a pirate copy of SuperCard 3.0 - unless, of course, he is so poor he stuck with a pre-Mac OS X computer.
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, "geradamas" <richmond@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Richmond,
>
> Thank you for your interest in SuperCard. There is no need for an older version of SuperCard to access and continue working with projects authored in older versions. SuperCard 4.7 is able to convert these projects to the current file format. Moreover, version 3.0 is not compatible under modern hardware running Mac OS X. There would be no way to run it unless you had access to the old 'Classic' environment.
>
> You can order the current version of SuperCard from our website at:
http://supercard.us/Purchase/orderFULL.html>
> Please feel free to contact us should you have any additional questions.
>
> Regards,
>
> SuperCard Customer Support
> Solutions Etcetera
>
>
> On Apr 1, 2013, at 11:47 PM, Richmond <richmondmathewson@...> wrote:
>
> > I would rather like to buy, beg or borrow a copy of
> > Supercard 3.0 to open, possibly, edit some old
> > stacks given to me by a friend.
> >
> > Could you please inform me whether I can buy a copy of Supercard 3.0
> > from you?
> >
> > sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.
>
>
>
> --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Uli Kusterer <Witness.of.TeachText@> wrote:
> >
> > Would be curious to hear whether that worked out.
> >
> > SuperCard 3.0 was three companies ago, IIRC (My copy is from Allegiant, after that came IncWell, then the current owners, Solutions Etc.), and AFAIK the editor included in SuperCard 3 was not transferred from Allegiant. I'm not sure whether that was a technical problem (lost disks ...?) or a legal one, but it might have impact on their ability to hand out licenses for SC 3.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -- Uli Kusterer
> >
http://stacksmith.org> >
> >
> > On 31.03.2013, at 20:26, geradamas <richmond@> wrote:
> > > Hey, guess what! I'm a screaming genius! I found this e-mail address:
> > >
> > > hello ...
> > >
> > > and, surprise, surprise, it's the SuperCard people's e-mail,
> > >
> > > so, instead of all this faffing about, surely the sensible thing would
> > > be to drop them a line and ask whether they could sell/give you a copy of SuperCard 3.0.
> > >
> > > Clever stuff, what?
> > >
> > > --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Michael Mays <michael@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Mark you know Apple did not give Macintosh Garden the right to distribute HyperCard much less any right to the source code. If this were 2113 maybe you could argue it was "abandonware". The owner of software does have the right to request their software to be removed. But the fact that they have or haven't doesn't make MG's activities any less illegal.
> > >>
> > >> Michael
> > >>
> > >> On Mar 29, 2013, at 4:29 PM, J. Landman Gay <jacque@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 3/29/13 3:57 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Btw. are you sure that Solutions Etc. they also have all distribution
> > >>>> rights for the versions that are on Macintosh Garden? Perhaps
> > >>>> Solutions Etc. only bought the source code? Maybe this "problem" it
> > >>>> isn't of their concern at all.
> > >>>
> > >>> It doesn't matter whether the software is available at the site, or if
> > >>> it is, who's problem it is. I took a look and everything on the site is
> > >>> a copyright violation. Copyrights last 75 years, and whether or not the
> > >>> software is in active development or not, no one can distribute it until
> > >>> the copyright expires.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm at a loss why you are defending any of this. It makes you appear to
> > >>> support piracy.
> > >>>
> > >>> Apologies to those who don't want to read about morality here. I had a
> > >>> software title of my own priated and illegally distributed and this
> > >>> issue hits very close to home.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 33 of 41)
Catherine Kunicki <marsvi0let@[redacted].com>
Tuesday, 02-Apr-2013 17:54 GMT
My daughter's huge urban high school used a Hypercard application for class registration until just a couple of years ago, and a fleet of obsolete Macs was painstakingly maintained solely in order to keep everything moving along. Sometimes a client DOES have only certain computers to work with. No need to assume Sunny Jim is financially motivated.
Catherine
On Apr 2, 2013, at 1:50 PM, geradamas <richmond@[redacted].maclaunchcom> wrote:
> The reply from the SuperCard people, especially "SuperCard 4.7 is able to convert these projects to the current file format." makes me wonder if 'Sunny Jim' wasn't just fishing for a pirate copy of SuperCard 3.0 - unless, of course, he is so poor he stuck with a pre-Mac OS X computer.
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 34 of 41)
DTS <daretospam@[redacted].com>
Tuesday, 02-Apr-2013 18:18 GMT
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 10:50 AM, geradamas <richmond@[redacted].maclaunchcom>wrote:
>
> The reply from the SuperCard people, especially "SuperCard 4.7 is able
> to convert these projects to the current file format." makes me wonder if
> 'Sunny Jim' wasn't just fishing for a pirate copy of SuperCard 3.0 -
> unless, of course, he is so poor he stuck with a pre-Mac OS X computer.
>
What a negative world view being perpetuated here... There are many
reasons people may want to run old software on original old hardware. The
OP does not need to justify why he is looking for this software and does
not warrant speculation about his motives. In a discussion group about a
now considered ancient software platform, it is not surprising to find
people interested in resurrecting old files, software, systems, etc. I
trust that someone in this group is not out to do harm, "pirate", or steal
from others, there are way more relevant and effective ways of doing those
activities than within in a HyperCard group.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 35 of 41)
J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com>
Tuesday, 02-Apr-2013 18:28 GMT
On 4/2/13 1:18 PM, DTS wrote:
> What a negative world view being perpetuated here...
I blame it on Congress. We're all jaded.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software |
http://www.hyperactivesw.com
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 36 of 41)
KA4HJH <ka4hjh@[redacted].com>
Tuesday, 02-Apr-2013 18:47 GMT
On Apr 2, 2013, at 2:28 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> On 4/2/13 1:18 PM, DTS wrote:
>
> > What a negative world view being perpetuated here...
>
> I blame it on Congress. We're all jaded.
Don't say that. This list will start to sound like all the others I'm on where a bunch of old, "white", "American" men start bitching about politicians (the ones they didn't vote for in particular) and end up dreaming about the Good Old Days (which by definition never actually happened but are th
e result of looking at the the past through a glass of jaded cynicism), completely ignoring every positive change that has occurred since "then". It gets so sold it makes you want to scream. It never occurs to these people that there might be anyone out there who's not interested let alone in agreement.
Please stick with the stock tactic of blaming Micro$oft.
Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 37 of 41)
J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com>
Tuesday, 02-Apr-2013 19:43 GMT
On 4/2/13 1:47 PM, KA4HJH wrote:
>
> On Apr 2, 2013, at 2:28 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>> On 4/2/13 1:18 PM, DTS wrote:
>>
>>> What a negative world view being perpetuated here...
>>
>> I blame it on Congress. We're all jaded.
>
> Don't say that. This list will start to sound like all the others I'm
> on
And here I was feeling smug for not mentioning which political party I
blame. :)
> where a bunch of old, "white", "American" men start bitching about
> politicians
But...but...I AM all those things. Except for the "men" part.
> Please stick with the stock tactic of blaming Micro$oft.
Good idea. Only lately I'm getting down on Google.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software |
http://www.hyperactivesw.com
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 38 of 41)
geradamas <richmond@[redacted].com>
Wednesday, 03-Apr-2013 05:33 GMT
I'm way ahead of all of you, I'm now blaming quite a lot on Apple.
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque@...> wrote:
>
> On 4/2/13 1:47 PM, KA4HJH wrote:
> >
> > On Apr 2, 2013, at 2:28 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
> >
> >> On 4/2/13 1:18 PM, DTS wrote:
> >>
> >>> What a negative world view being perpetuated here...
> >>
> >> I blame it on Congress. We're all jaded.
> >
> > Don't say that. This list will start to sound like all the others I'm
> > on
>
> And here I was feeling smug for not mentioning which political party I
> blame. :)
>
> > where a bunch of old, "white", "American" men start bitching about
> > politicians
>
> But...but...I AM all those things. Except for the "men" part.
>
> > Please stick with the stock tactic of blaming Micro$oft.
>
> Good idea. Only lately I'm getting down on Google.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@...
> HyperActive Software |
http://www.hyperactivesw.com>
[HC] Old SuperCard
(Msg 39 of 41)
walktowardsthelight <catkeeper@[redacted].com>
Wednesday, 03-Apr-2013 20:24 GMT
--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Uli Kusterer <Witness.of.TeachText@...> wrote:
>
> SuperCard 3.0 was three companies ago, IIRC (My copy is from Allegiant, after that came
> IncWell, then the current owners, Solutions Etc.), and AFAIK the editor included in
> SuperCard 3 was not transferred from Allegiant. I'm not sure whether that was a
> technical problem (lost disks ...?) or a legal one, but it might have impact on their ability
> to hand out licenses for SC 3.
IIRC all assets obtained by Allegiant in the transfer from Aldus or subsequently created by them were passed through IncWell to the current owners, and the inglorious demise of the late (and unlamented) 3.x Project Editor was deliberate.
What I suspect you may be referring to is that (although this was apparently a deep dark secret at the time) for reasons never imparted to yours truly it seems Allegiant didn't inherit the full source code to SuperEdit. Also some of the gnarliest parts of what they did acquire were in 68K assembly language, which they were evidently unwilling or unable to decipher.
For years I used to wonder why SE wasn't updated much, or slated to be part of the ultimately failed Windoze port. Time and again I implored ATI to rethink this seemingly inexplicable decision, but to no avail. Instead they stubbornly insisted that the 3.x PE was a perfectly serviceable replacement for SE (which it obviously was not). Though an impressive feat of misbegotten scripting it was essentially a blivit, the digital equivalent of a papier-mâché parade float constructed around a flatbed truck. It made the runtime prettier, but it was hopelessly fragile and there just wasn't enough SuperCard left over to do much practical work.
In Ken Ray's defense, in those days the SC engine was simply too limited and inefficient to permit creation of such an ambitious scripted UI having even marginally acceptable performance without a tangled web of tentacles scripters inevitably tripped over. Anything truly robust and usable would have required optimizations and dedicated support in the interpreter which The Powers That Be at ATI were evidently unwilling to allocate engineering resources for.
-Mark
(Note: 2 duplicate messages omitted.)
HyperCard® and HyperTalk™ remain trademarks of Apple, Inc.; other trademarked products and terms mentioned in this archive are the property of their respective trademark holders. Individual messages remain the intellectual property of their respective authors.