HyperCard Mailing List

I've been using HyperCard for 20 years to run a business and it has
been fantastic even if I have to keep a museum quality machine on the
go in order to do it.

3 questions:

1. I took a quick look at LiveCode and can't quite find the
alternative to background fields. So many of my stacks consist of
hundreds of cards with info in the background fields with an indexing
card at the front. This doesn't seem so easy in LiveCard. Am I
missing something?

2. Is there a difference between LiveCode Community version and the
fully paid up version?

3. Does LiveCode still open HyperCard stacks? I tried with a really
simple stack (virtually nothing in it) and LiveCode (latest Community
version) crashed.

Paul


__________

Paul Kennan
Dublin Art Glass
62b Heather Road
Sandyford Industrial Estate
Dublin D18 VR92
Ireland
Tel: (+353 1) 295 7261
Fax: (+353 1) 295 7297
Email: paul@[redacted].ieVAT # IE4745333S

1. With LiveCode you have Groups, and those can be set to act as Background.. You could take everything in a HyperCard background and make it be a group, and you would have something like backgrounds.

2. The paid version allows you to set passwords. Also, due to Apple rules you would have to use one of the paid versions if you intend to submit apps to the App Store. You could completely develop the app with the free version, then only pay for the Indy or Business versions at the time you need to submit the app.

3. LiveCode 5 and 6 seems to be able to open HyperCard stacks without crashing, but LiveCode 7 and 8 do crash. Maybe they dropped support for that?


> On Sep 30, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Paul Kennan pkennan@[redacted].ie[HyperCard] <HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:
>
> I've been using HyperCard for 20 years to run a business and it has been fantastic even if I have to keep a museum quality machine on the go in order to do it.
>
>
> 3 questions:
>
> 1. I took a quick look at LiveCode and can't quite find the alternative to background fields. So many of my stacks consist of hundreds of cards with info in the background fields with an indexing card at the front. This doesn't seem so easy in LiveCard. Am I missing something?
>
> 2. Is there a difference between LiveCode Community version and the fully paid up version?
>
> 3. Does LiveCode still open HyperCard stacks? I tried with a really simple stack (virtually nothing in it) and LiveCode (latest Community version) crashed.
>
> Paul
>
>
> __________
>
> Paul Kennan
> Dublin Art Glass
> 62b Heather Road
> Sandyford Industrial Estate
> Dublin D18 VR92
> Ireland
> Tel: (+353 1) 295 7261
> Fax: (+353 1) 295 7297
> Email: paul@[redacted].ie<mailto:paul@[redacted].ieVAT # IE4745333S
>
>
>
>

Further information about your third question:

LiveCode should still be able to import HyperCard stacks. There was no plan
by the team to 'drop' this feature. I spoke to various members of the
LiveCode team about this issue at the recent LiveCode conference, and this
issue was accidentally introduced when the engine was re-factored from v6
to v7 and should be fixed "some time soon". However as Colin mentioned,
importing in LiveCode 6 (which is also free) and then moving the imported
stack into version 7 or 8 is a perfectly valid - although a bit cumbersome
- way of doing things.

You should also consider how you are moving the stack to the more modern
computer in order to import it into LiveCode. HyperCard stores several
aspects of the stack (icons, sounds, etc.) in the resource fork of the
stack, and if you copy just the stack file across to a more modern system
you will lose the resource fork and all of the data that it holds. The way
to prevent this is to make a Stuffit (.sit), MacBinary (.bin) or BinHex
(.hqx) file of the stack, as those compression formats will preserve the
resource fork. However while I think about this, you probably need to do
the importing on a Mac with OS X to read the resource forks (not the latest
version though, as I am not sure if it supports resource forks). I have all
the necessary computers to do this (in fact, I did it today for a stack
someone had posted in the LiveCode forum) and so if you want me to import
the stack / extract .sit / .bin / .hqx files, etc... Let me know and I'll
be happy to help.

Andrew

P.S. Out of curiosity as a vintage computer collector, what computer are
you using to run HyperCard?

On 30 September 2016 at 17:27, Colin Holgate coiin@[redacted].net[HyperCard] <
HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:

>
>
> 1. With LiveCode you have Groups, and those can be set to act as
> Background. You could take everything in a HyperCard background and make it
> be a group, and you would have something like backgrounds.
>
> 2. The paid version allows you to set passwords. Also, due to Apple rules
> you would have to use one of the paid versions if you intend to submit apps
> to the App Store. You could completely develop the app with the free
> version, then only pay for the Indy or Business versions at the time you
> need to submit the app.
>
> 3. LiveCode 5 and 6 seems to be able to open HyperCard stacks without
> crashing, but LiveCode 7 and 8 do crash. Maybe they dropped support for
> that?
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Paul Kennan pkennan@[redacted].ie[HyperCard] <
> HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:
>
> I've been using HyperCard for 20 years to run a business and it has been
> fantastic even if I have to keep a museum quality machine on the go in
> order to do it.
>
> 3 questions:
>
> 1. I took a quick look at LiveCode and can't quite find the alternative
> to background fields. So many of my stacks consist of hundreds of cards
> with info in the background fields with an indexing card at the front.
> This doesn't seem so easy in LiveCard. Am I missing something?
>
> 2. Is there a difference between LiveCode Community version and the fully
> paid up version?
>
> 3. Does LiveCode still open HyperCard stacks? I tried with a really
> simple stack (virtually nothing in it) and LiveCode (latest Community
> version) crashed.
>
> Paul
>
>
> __________
>
> Paul Kennan
> Dublin Art Glass
> 62b Heather Road
> Sandyford Industrial Estate
> Dublin D18 VR92
> Ireland
> Tel: (+353 1) 295 7261
> Fax: (+353 1) 295 7297
> Email: paul@[redacted].ie> VAT # IE4745333S
>
>
>
>
>
>

On 9/30/16 1:32 PM, Andrew Ferguson andrewferguson500@[redacted].com
[HyperCard] wrote:
> LiveCode should still be able to import HyperCard stacks. There was no plan
> by the team to 'drop' this feature. I spoke to various members of the
> LiveCode team about this issue at the recent LiveCode conference, and this
> issue was accidentally introduced when the engine was re-factored from v6
> to v7 and should be fixed "some time soon". However as Colin mentioned,
> importing in LiveCode 6 (which is also free) and then moving the imported
> stack into version 7 or 8 is a perfectly valid - although a bit cumbersome
> - way of doing things.

There's an open bug report about it too, but the team has been pretty
busy lately adapting to Apple's latest XCode and iOS 10. It's in the
pipeline though.

>
> You should also consider how you are moving the stack to the more modern
> computer in order to import it into LiveCode. HyperCard stores several
> aspects of the stack (icons, sounds, etc.) in the resource fork of the
> stack, and if you copy just the stack file across to a more modern system
> you will lose the resource fork and all of the data that it holds.

Actually, if you're on a Mac, you can just open the stack from within
LiveCode (version 6 or earlier, for now) and it will import a number of
resources automatically: icons, background and card images (the native
ones, not AddColor,) and if I remember right, cursors.

XCMDs aren't imported but they are almost never needed because LC
already has built-in features that do what HC needed externals to do.

I have a (very old) tutorial about how to import and adjust HC stacks to
run in LiveCode:

http://www.hyperactivesw.com/mctutorial/rrtutorialtoc.html

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Great to see that there are still some people lurking on the
HyperCard List and willing to help out. Much thanks for the feedback.

I took a look at the "Group" concept and I'm having some trouble
wrapping my brain around it. I haven't yet found a good explanation
of how it works. Are there any comprehensive books about LiveCode?

I got LiveCode 6.7 and it opens the HyperCard stacks fine.

I am running HyperCard on an iMac G5 (I suppose not quite
vintage...), LiveCode on a recent MacBook Air (wonderful device!).

Jacque's conversion tutorial is excellent and a wonderful
comprehensive resource.

There is a wonderful simple elegance about HyperCard and it is a
shame it has been lost. LiveCard is much more complex and I guess it
has to be, both because it has greater ambition and because it runs
cross platform. I will continue to explore it and hopefully get a
handle on it eventually.

Paul


On 30 Sep 2016, at 17:27, Colin Holgate coiin@[redacted].net[HyperCard]
wrote:

> 1. With LiveCode you have Groups, and those can be set to act as
> Background. You could take everything in a HyperCard background and
> make it be a group, and you would have something like backgrounds.
>
>
> 2. The paid version allows you to set passwords. Also, due to Apple
> rules you would have to use one of the paid versions if you intend
> to submit apps to the App Store. You could completely develop the
> app with the free version, then only pay for the Indy or Business
> versions at the time you need to submit the app.
>
> 3. LiveCode 5 and 6 seems to be able to open HyperCard stacks
> without crashing, but LiveCode 7 and 8 do crash. Maybe they dropped
> support for that?
>
>
>> On Sep 30, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Paul Kennan pkennan@[redacted].ie
>> [HyperCard] <HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:
>>
>> I've been using HyperCard for 20 years to run a business and it
>> has been fantastic even if I have to keep a museum quality machine
>> on the go in order to do it.
>>
>>
>> 3 questions:
>>
>> 1. I took a quick look at LiveCode and can't quite find the
>> alternative to background fields. So many of my stacks consist of
>> hundreds of cards with info in the background fields with an
>> indexing card at the front. This doesn't seem so easy in
>> LiveCard. Am I missing something?
>>
>> 2. Is there a difference between LiveCode Community version and
>> the fully paid up version?
>>
>> 3. Does LiveCode still open HyperCard stacks? I tried with a
>> really simple stack (virtually nothing in it) and LiveCode (latest
>> Community version) crashed.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> __________
>>
>> Paul Kennan
>> Dublin Art Glass
>> 62b Heather Road
>> Sandyford Industrial Estate
>> Dublin D18 VR92
>> Ireland
>> Tel: (+353 1) 295 7261
>> Fax: (+353 1) 295 7297
>> Email: paul@[redacted].ie>> VAT # IE4745333S
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Group is like multiple backgrounds. You can have more than one "background" (group) on the card and must specify if an element is part of that group.
It defaults to card elements, unless told to group them in which case those grouped elements are your background.

The information may be a bit outdated now, but there used to be a page on
the LiveCode website about the differences between LiveCode (then
Revolution) and HyperCard. The page was taken down when the website was
redesigned after the kickstarter campaign, but you can still view a copy of
it at the internet archive:
http://web.archive.org/web/20121025152800/http://www.runrev.com/developers/lessons-and-tutorials/moving-to-rev/hypercard

The page has a fairly detailed explanation of groups, along with may other
things.

Andrew

P.S. The Internet Archive is being slow for me at the moment, so you may
have to wait around 30 seconds for the page to load.

On 1 October 2016 at 15:53, Paul Kennan pkennan@[redacted].ie[HyperCard] <
HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:

>
>
> Great to see that there are still some people lurking on the HyperCard
> List and willing to help out. Much thanks for the feedback.
>
> I took a look at the "Group" concept and I'm having some trouble wrapping
> my brain around it. I haven't yet found a good explanation of how it
> works. Are there any comprehensive books about LiveCode?
>
> I got LiveCode 6.7 and it opens the HyperCard stacks fine.
>
> I am running HyperCard on an iMac G5 (I suppose not quite vintage...),
> LiveCode on a recent MacBook Air (wonderful device!).
>
> Jacque's conversion tutorial is excellent and a wonderful comprehensive
> resource.
>
> There is a wonderful simple elegance about HyperCard and it is a shame it
> has been lost. LiveCard is much more complex and I guess it has to be,
> both because it has greater ambition and because it runs cross platform. I
> will continue to explore it and hopefully get a handle on it eventually.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On 30 Sep 2016, at 17:27, Colin Holgate coiin@[redacted].net[HyperCard]
> wrote:
>
>
>
> 1. With LiveCode you have Groups, and those can be set to act as
> Background. You could take everything in a HyperCard background and make it
> be a group, and you would have something like backgrounds.
>
> 2. The paid version allows you to set passwords. Also, due to Apple rules
> you would have to use one of the paid versions if you intend to submit apps
> to the App Store. You could completely develop the app with the free
> version, then only pay for the Indy or Business versions at the time you
> need to submit the app.
>
> 3. LiveCode 5 and 6 seems to be able to open HyperCard stacks without
> crashing, but LiveCode 7 and 8 do crash. Maybe they dropped support for
> that?
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Paul Kennan pkennan@[redacted].ie[HyperCard] <
> HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:
>
> I've been using HyperCard for 20 years to run a business and it has been
> fantastic even if I have to keep a museum quality machine on the go in
> order to do it.
>
> 3 questions:
>
> 1. I took a quick look at LiveCode and can't quite find the alternative
> to background fields. So many of my stacks consist of hundreds of cards
> with info in the background fields with an indexing card at the front.
> This doesn't seem so easy in LiveCard. Am I missing something?
>
> 2. Is there a difference between LiveCode Community version and the fully
> paid up version?
>
> 3. Does LiveCode still open HyperCard stacks? I tried with a really
> simple stack (virtually nothing in it) and LiveCode (latest Community
> version) crashed.
>
> Paul
>
>
> __________
>
> Paul Kennan
> Dublin Art Glass
> 62b Heather Road
> Sandyford Industrial Estate
> Dublin D18 VR92
> Ireland
> Tel: (+353 1) 295 7261
> Fax: (+353 1) 295 7297
> Email: paul@[redacted].ie> VAT # IE4745333S
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

There are many books on LiveCode, but for getting started you'll find the User Guide included with the install is quite good enough. At 639 pages it's too comprehensive to read all of it in a single sitting, but very worthwhile to review sections as you need them.

For getting the hang of groups see the section "Groups and Backgrounds", beginning on p. 124.

You can open the User Guide PDF within the LiveCode IDE by choosing "User Guide" from the "Help" menu.