HyperCard Mailing List

I am looking for a copy of metacard for windows. I can't find it anywhere. I don't wish to ask on livecodes list because I will get a lot of use livecode instead propaganda. I also don't wish to justify my preference or explain why I am do disenchanted with livecode's ui. So if anyone has a link or file for me I would be grateful. Thanks!

Are these them?:

www.canelasoftware.com/metacard.html

Not surprisingly the Mac one doesn’t run. The Windows 32 bit one runs fine in Parallels on Mac.


> On Jan 29, 2018, at 10:00 AM, eric.engle@[redacted].com[HyperCard] <HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:
>
> I am looking for a copy of metacard for windows. I can't find it anywhere... I don't wish to ask on livecodes list because I will get a lot of use livecode instead propaganda. I also don't wish to justify my preference or explain why I am do disenchanted with livecode's ui. So if anyone has a link or file for me I would be grateful. Thanks!
>
>
>

I have metacard on my windows machine using a LiveCode engine. It is open source. Would that help?

⁣Met vriendelijke groeten,

Mark Schonewille
http://www.ecxtalk.nl


Verzonden door BlueMail ​

Op 31 jan. 2018 10:41, om 10:41, "eric.engle@[redacted].com[HyperCard]" <HyperCard-Mailing-List> schreef:
>I am looking for a copy of metacard for windows. I can't find it
>anywhere. I don't wish to ask on livecodes list because I will get a
>lot of use livecode instead propaganda. I also don't wish to justify my
>preference or explain why I am do disenchanted with livecode's ui. So
>if anyone has a link or file for me I would be grateful. Thanks!
>

Strange, that message took nearly 11 hours to arrive! Then again, the ISP here has had a bad day.


> On Jan 31, 2018, at 5:38 AM, Colin Holgate coiin@[redacted].net[HyperCard] <HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:
>
> Are these them?:
>
>
> www.canelasoftware.com/metacard.html <http://www.canelasoftware.com/metacard.html>;
>
> Not surprisingly the Mac one doesn’t run. The Windows 32 bit one runs fine in Parallels on Mac.
>
>
>> On Jan 29, 2018, at 10:00 AM, eric.engle@[redacted].com<mailto:eric.engle@[redacted].com [HyperCard] <HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard-Mailing-List>> wrote:
>>
>> I am looking for a copy of metacard for windows. I can't find it anywhere. I don't wish to ask on livecodes list because I will get a lot of use livecode instead propaganda. I also don't wish to justify my preference or explain why I am do disenchanted with livecode's ui. So if anyone has a link or file for me I would be grateful. Thanks!
>>
>>
>>

Thank you so much! Well, what I am working on is a Chinese-English visual dictionary. This is the sort of thing hypercard would be perfect for!
The problems I had in livecode were 1) copying and pasting text wtf; the copy paste from global clipboard often fails on windows. That's kinda basic 2) no import from HTML. How can they have such a well-developed UI without a basic import function built into the UI? There is also no "export as HTML" function, though that's less problematic. 3) The UI OFTEN hangs even on very simple tasks. Example, trying to import a document with about 4000 unicode characters and then turn each into a card haha no. The program often would "hang" while doing any complex task. More or less I ascribe all this to an overly complex UI.
The link you sent me is also on the internet archive. :)

Does Metacard do all of those things?

> On Feb 1, 2018, at 7:46 AM, eric.engle@[redacted].com[HyperCard] <HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you so much! Well, what I am working on is a Chinese-English visual dictionary. This is the sort of thing hypercard would be perfect for!
> The problems I had in livecode were 1) copying and pasting text wtf; the copy paste from global clipboard often fails on windows. That's kinda basic 2) no import from HTML. How can they have such a well-developed UI without a basic import function built into the UI? There is also no "export as HTML" function, though that's less problematic. 3) The UI OFTEN hangs even on very simple tasks. Example, trying to import a document with about 4000 unicode characters and then turn each into a card haha no. The program often would "hang" while doing any complex task. More or less I ascribe all this to an overly complex UI.
> The link you sent me is also on the internet archive. :)
>
>

For most of the things, no. Those it can do require the same scripting LC
does. .

BTW, it isn't possible any more to use the latest LC engine with the MC
IDE, at least not using the previous methods. The last version of LC that
works with the MC IDE is version 6.x. That's before native unicode was
implemented.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On February 1, 2018 9:37:54 AM "Colin Holgate coiin@[redacted].net
[HyperCard]" <HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:

> Does Metacard do all of those things?
>
>> On Feb 1, 2018, at 7:46 AM, eric.engle@[redacted].com[HyperCard]
>> <HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thank you so much! Well, what I am working on is a Chinese-English visual
>> dictionary. This is the sort of thing hypercard would be perfect for!
>> The problems I had in livecode were 1) copying and pasting text wtf; the
>> copy paste from global clipboard often fails on windows. That's kinda basic
>> 2) no import from HTML. How can they have such a well-developed UI without
>> a basic import function built into the UI? There is also no "export as
>> HTML" function, though that's less problematic. 3) The UI OFTEN hangs even
>> on very simple tasks. Example, trying to import a document with about 4000
>> unicode characters and then turn each into a card haha no. The program
>> often would "hang" while doing any complex task. More or less I ascribe all
>> this to an overly complex UI.
>> The link you sent me is also on the internet archive. :)
>>
>>
>

These issues all sound like scripting problems rather than IDE issues. If
you ask on the LC forums or mailing list you'll get answers. Everything
you've mentioned is doable.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On February 1, 2018 8:47:25 AM "eric.engle@[redacted].com[HyperCard]"
<HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:

> Thank you so much! Well, what I am working on is a Chinese-English visual
> dictionary. This is the sort of thing hypercard would be perfect for!
> The problems I had in livecode were 1) copying and pasting text wtf; the
> copy paste from global clipboard often fails on windows. That's kinda basic
> 2) no import from HTML. How can they have such a well-developed UI without
> a basic import function built into the UI? There is also no "export as
> HTML" function, though that's less problematic. 3) The UI OFTEN hangs even
> on very simple tasks. Example, trying to import a document with about 4000
> unicode characters and then turn each into a card haha no. The program
> often would "hang" while doing any complex task. More or less I ascribe all
> this to an overly complex UI.
> The link you sent me is also on the internet archive. :)
>

I have MC instealled with LC 8.1. It seems to
work fine. Can you mention something specific that doesn't work?
--
Kind regards,

Drs. Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consultancy and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
Facebook: http://facebook.com/LiveCode.Beginner
KvK: 50277553
Op 01-02-18 om 18:46 schreef 'J.
Landman Gay' jacque@[redacted].com[HyperCard]:


For most of the things, no. Those it can do require the same scripting LC
does. .

BTW, it isn't possible any more to use the latest LC engine with the MC
IDE, at least not using the previous methods. The last version of LC that
works with the MC IDE is version 6.x. That's before native unicode was
implemented.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com



On February 1, 2018 9:37:54 AM "Colin Holgate coiin@[redacted].net
[HyperCard]" <HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:



Does Metacard do all of those things?



On Feb 1, 2018, at 7:46 AM, eric.engle@[redacted].com[HyperCard]
<HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:


Thank you so much! Well, what I am working on is a Chinese-English visual
dictionary. This is the sort of thing hypercard would be perfect for!
The problems I had in livecode were 1) copying and pasting text wtf; the
copy paste from global clipboard often fails on windows. That's kinda basic
2) no import from HTML. How can they have such a well-developed UI without
a basic import function built into the UI? There is also no "export as
HTML" function, though that's less problematic. 3) The UI OFTEN hangs even
on very simple tasks. Example, trying to import a document with about 4000
unicode characters and then turn each into a card haha no. The program
often would "hang" while doing any complex task. More or less I ascribe all
this to an overly complex UI.
The link you sent me is also on the internet archive. :)

I haven't tried it myself, but I've had several people on the LC list
tell me privately they couldn't get it to work. If you have information,
they'd probably like to know. I left the MC IDE behind quite a while ago.

On 2/1/18 1:30 PM, Mark m.schonewille@[redacted].com[HyperCard] wrote:
>
>
> I have MC instealled with LC 8.1. It seems to work fine. Can you mention
> something specific that doesn't work?
>
> --
> Kind regards,
>
> Drs. Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consultancy and Software Engineering
> Homepage:http://economy-x-talk.com
> Twitter:http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
> Facebook:http://facebook.com/LiveCode.Beginner
> KvK: 50277553
>
> Op 01-02-18 om 18:46 schreef 'J. Landman Gay' jacque@[redacted].com
> [HyperCard]:
>> For most of the things, no. Those it can do require the same scripting LC
>> does. .
>>
>> BTW, it isn't possible any more to use the latest LC engine with the MC
>> IDE, at least not using the previous methods. The last version of LC that
>> works with the MC IDE is version 6.x. That's before native unicode was
>> implemented.
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay |jacque@[redacted].com>> HyperActive Software |http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On February 1, 2018 9:37:54 AM "Colin Holgatecoiin@[redacted].net
>> [HyperCard]"<HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:
>>
>>> Does Metacard do all of those things?
>>>
>>>> On Feb 1, 2018, at 7:46 AM,eric.engle@[redacted].com [HyperCard]
>>>> <HyperCard-Mailing-List> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you so much! Well, what I am working on is a Chinese-English visual
>>>> dictionary. This is the sort of thing hypercard would be perfect for!
>>>> The problems I had in livecode were 1) copying and pasting text wtf; the
>>>> copy paste from global clipboard often fails on windows. That's kinda basic
>>>> 2) no import from HTML. How can they have such a well-developed UI without
>>>> a basic import function built into the UI? There is also no "export as
>>>> HTML" function, though that's less problematic. 3) The UI OFTEN hangs even
>>>> on very simple tasks. Example, trying to import a document with about 4000
>>>> unicode characters and then turn each into a card haha no. The program
>>>> often would "hang" while doing any complex task. More or less I ascribe all
>>>> this to an overly complex UI.
>>>> The link you sent me is also on the internet archive. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

I never had a problem with metacard's UI choking and failing to execute fairly basic commands; i also don't recall having had any difficulty copying and pasting from and to the clipboard.
regarding html hypergasp (which I cannot find on the net anymore) allowed one to export a stack to html nicely.

please note this is the conversation i didn't want to have; i'm trying to be polite. the lack of an import and export text toll
10 plus years into development
is just one of the reasons I really dislike the livecode UI.
that's a basic function. so is the clipboard. and not hanging.

On 2/1/18 6:43 PM, Eric Engle eric.engle@[redacted].com[HyperCard] wrote:
> I never had a problem with metacard's UI choking and failing to execute fairly basic commands; i also don't recall having had any difficulty copying and pasting from and to the clipboard.
> regarding html hypergasp (which I cannot find on the net anymore) allowed one to export a stack to html nicely.
>
> please note this is the conversation i didn't want to have; i'm trying to be polite. the lack of an import and export text toll
> 10 plus years into development
> is just one of the reasons I really dislike the livecode UI.
> that's a basic function. so is the clipboard. and not hanging.

I apologize, I didn't mean to start anything.

But just so others know, there's a built-in text import in the field
property inspector, the same place it is in the MC IDE. Importing and
exporting text or HTML is a one-liner.

If you feel like it, please drop me a line because I'm very interested
in knowing what commands cause a hang, I'd like to enter a bug report.
You're also the first person I've heard of who couldn't use copy/paste,
and if it is reproducible I'd like to enter a bug report for that too.
If there are issues, they need to be fixed and it sounds like you've
found an edge case.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Here is an example of producing HTML from a stack :
on mouseUp   put buttons "tabs" into onglets   put the short name of this stack into stackName   get htmlPagesEcran(stackName, onglets)   -- etcend mouseUp

function htmlPagesEcran stackName, onglets
   put "<!doctype html>" & cr after myHTML
   put "<html>" & cr & cr after myHTML
   put "<head>" & cr after myHTML
   put "<meta http-equiv=" & quote & "x-ua-compatible" & quote && "content=" & quote & "ie=edge" & quote && "/>" & cr after myHTML
   put "<meta name=" & quote & "viewport" & quote && "content=" & quote & "width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0" & quote && "/>" & cr after myHTML
   put "<meta charset=" & quote & "utf-8" & quote && "/>" & cr after myHTML
   put "<link rel=" & quote & "stylesheet" & quote && "href=" & quote & "../machina.css" & quote && "/>" & cr after myHTML
   put "<title>" & stackName & "</title>" & cr after myHTML
   put "</head>" & cr & cr after myHTML
   put "<body bgcolor=" & quote & "white" & quote & ">" & cr & cr after myHTML
   put "<h1>Ecrans du logiciel</h1>" & cr & cr after myHTML
   put "<h2>" & stackName & "</h2>" & cr & cr after myHTML
   repeat with x = 1 to the number of lines of onglets
      if stackName is "dev"
      then put "<h3>" & (line x of onglets) & "</h3>" & cr after myHTML
      else put "<h3>Onglet" && (line x of onglets) & "</h3>" & cr after myHTML
      put "<div>" & "<img" && "src=" & quote & "ecran-" & x & ".jpg" & quote & ">" & "</div>" & cr after myHTML
      put "<br>" & cr & cr after myHTML
   end repeat
   put "</body>" & cr after myHTML
   put "</html>" after myHTML
   return myHTML
end htmlPagesEcran


From: "'J. Landman Gay' jacque@[redacted].com[HyperCard]" <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Friday, February 2, 2018 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: [HC] looking for metacard for windows

  On 2/1/18 6:43 PM, Eric Engle eric.engle@[redacted].com[HyperCard] wrote:
> I never had a problem with metacard's UI choking and failing to execute fairly basic commands; i also don't recall having had any difficulty copying and pasting from and to the clipboard.
> regarding html hypergasp (which I cannot find on the net anymore) allowed one to export a stack to html nicely.
>
> please note this is the conversation i didn't want to have; i'm trying to be polite. the lack of an import and export text toll
> 10 plus years into development
> is just one of the reasons I really dislike the livecode UI.
> that's a basic function. so is the clipboard. and not hanging.

I apologize, I didn't mean to start anything.

But just so others know, there's a built-in text import in the field
property inspector, the same place it is in the MC IDE. Importing and
exporting text or HTML is a one-liner.

If you feel like it, please drop me a line because I'm very interested
in knowing what commands cause a hang, I'd like to enter a bug report.
You're also the first person I've heard of who couldn't use copy/paste,
and if it is reproducible I'd like to enter a bug report for that too.
If there are issues, they need to be fixed and it sounds like you've
found an edge case.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Eric wrote:
> please note this is the conversation i didn't want to have;


Then let's have a different one.


I'm not a big fan of the LC IDE either, but the engine is pretty nice. So I made my own UI to access the things I need from it - here's how I start my work each day:
http://fourthworld.net/lc/rg-lc-ide.png


Simple, clean, let's me devote more attention to the stacks I'm working on than the IDE's. I call that palette devolution, and distribute it freely here:
http://fourthworld.com/products/devolution/


But of course that's just one take on modding the LC environment.


Andy Piddock's TinyIDE is another:
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28644


There used to be others, including a nice HyperCard-flavored UI called FreeGUI, but I don't think most of those are actively maintained. I would be happy to learn of others if the folks here know of any.


And of course there's MetaCard, kept alive and well in the capable hands of the current maintainer, a fells who goes by the name "Bogs".


A thread about his work with MC is here:
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=29471&start=75


The latest builds of the MC IDE can be downloaded here in Yahoo Groups:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MC_IDE/files


I enjoyed MC for many years, one of the last people to do daily professional work with it. In fact, I liked it so much I was one of the maintainers of the MC IDE project for many years.


But one thing we found was that the engine's capabilities grew faster than we could afford to build UIs to access them. Of course everything the engine offers is accessible via script, but the role of an IDE is to let us use a GUI for the tasks a GUI can be most helpful with. Building UIs takes time; building UIs for an IDE takes time away from client work, sometimes difficult to justify.


Even in its current form, with all the good work Bogs has done making the MC IDE run smoothly with even the free and open Community Edition of LiveCode, it's rather spartan. It was somewhat barebones back in its day, and with the vast range of new features added since engine v2.4, the gap between what MC provides a GUI for and the full scope of engine capabilities has only grow, somewhat dramatically.


In my own experience, I've found a useful workflow in using those parts of the LC IDE that are good enough or I don't feel like replacing, and then making my own alternatives for others, or using tools from the community.


For example, Geoff Canyon's Navigator is a wonderful plugin that offers support for the types of things found in LC's Project Browser, but more, and in some ways more deeply:
https://gcanyon.wordpress.com/navigator-documentation/#updates-for-5.0


There are others as well, and it's easy for you to make your own: create a stack, save it to your Plugins folder, use the Plugins Manager to automatically open it when LC launches. That's it. Any stack you like then becomes part of your development environment, with all the freedom a fully-scripted development environment can offer.