HyperCard Mailing List

Your post is well worth much more than 2 cents. I want it well noted that I
have not opposed the usage of
next generation software. I admit that I was and am a bit confused about the
content of this forum. Consider
its name. "HyperCard" I joined it with the hope of learning from those that
know more than I about HC.
My responses have matched and exceeded the "polite posts" that I have read.
I admit that my ignorance
may be Polly viewed as malarkey. Heck,the main reason I joined was and is to
bare my ignorant soul,
and to learn. Learn what? If I were to count the number of posts which
banner anything other than HC,
I might concluded that I am really in a forum which seeks to evangelize the
errors of learning/using HC,
and how much better my business/life would be if I flushed HC,and joined in
the "majority" that
advocates not to waste my life on an "obsolete,dead application in a world
that has moved on."
Mea culpa,mea culpa,mea maxima culpa. What I choose to do,in my present
circumstance,is border line
heresy. I prostrate myself,and dare to ask those that know more about HC
than I(And there are very many),
to inform me. Am I in the wrong forum? If I am,then please know I meant no
harm. I simply want to know
all I can,from those that dare to mentor about HC. If I am on a fool`s
journey,please HC members,let me
know. Cheers
I remain
Respectfully
Gene Henley

www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com (Now in Japan)

From: "Tim Selander" <selander@[redacted].attne.jp>
To: <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 3:14 AM
Subject: Re: [HC]


> Gene,
>
> Given the machinery you run, and your stated willingness to use
> "good enough" hardware and software, for what I am taking to be
> "in-house" needs, I believe Hypercard/HyperTalk is worth your time.
>
> A lot of us are still using it in business settings. I should
> point out though, that I am also using an add-on product called
> "Reports 9 to 5" for Hypercard that really supercharges HC's
> printing/data reporting capabilities. This product gives me great
> database report capabilities (scriptable Invoices, sales reports,
> etc., etc.) that would be very hard, if not impossible, to do
> just in HC. But in all these years, I have not found a product
> that beats this HC and Reports add-on combo for my specific
> needs. So I still run G4 machines for my staff that uses the HC
> programs I've written. There are some quirks and pitfalls, but
> should you decided to go this route, folk on this list can help.
>
> As many others are pointing out, you need to know that HC will
> become almost useless to you, should you need to move to Intel
> Macs. However, also as others have pointed out, any effort you
> put into learning HC will be easily transferred to a product
> called "LiveCode" -- which will make programs that run on any
> modern computer, and also would not need the "Reports 9 to 5"
> add-on.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> On 10/31/12 11:07 PM, Gene Henley wrote:
>>
>>
>> Tim, I am not an accomplished programmer,nor do I strive to be one.
>> I merely want to know if HC is a viable productive addition to my
>> business tools."Proof of pudding."
>> I have a small in home MLM business. My CODB is carefully
>> analyzed. I do not know if HC has any fervent believers that
>> also input improvements to it. My task is to find out.
>> This is not a hobby. I`m not looking at it simply "Because it`s there."
>> I intend to use it,but only if it satisfies my business requirements.
>> Cheers
>> Gene Henley
>

I still love HC, I like this board. Especially arty farty rigmarole. High entertaining value.
Best wishes,
Ralf

Am 01.11.2012 um 15:29 schrieb "Gene Henley" <mhenley2@[redacted].net:

> Your post is well worth much more than 2 cents. I want it well noted that I
> have not opposed the usage of
> next generation software. I admit that I was and am a bit confused about the
> content of this forum. Consider
> its name. "HyperCard" I joined it with the hope of learning from those that
> know more than I about HC.
> My responses have matched and exceeded the "polite posts" that I have read.
> I admit that my ignorance
> may be Polly viewed as malarkey. Heck,the main reason I joined was and is to
> bare my ignorant soul,
> and to learn. Learn what? If I were to count the number of posts which
> banner anything other than HC,
> I might concluded that I am really in a forum which seeks to evangelize the
> errors of learning/using HC,
> and how much better my business/life would be if I flushed HC,and joined in
> the "majority" that
> advocates not to waste my life on an "obsolete,dead application in a world
> that has moved on."
> Mea culpa,mea culpa,mea maxima culpa. What I choose to do,in my present
> circumstance,is border line
> heresy. I prostrate myself,and dare to ask those that know more about HC
> than I(And there are very many),
> to inform me. Am I in the wrong forum? If I am,then please know I meant no
> harm. I simply want to know
> all I can,from those that dare to mentor about HC. If I am on a fool`s
> journey,please HC members,let me
> know. Cheers
> I remain
> Respectfully
> Gene Henley

You're not on the wrong forum. You're on a very old forum. It was
extremely active in its day, with lots of people asking
questions, answering questions and learning how to use it for
lots of neat things. Just what you were hoping for, probably.

But, since Apple quit updating it, gradually people stopped using
it and moved onto other things, notably what is now known as
LiveCode. Many of us on the HC forum are also on the newer LC
forums. The normal function of the HC forum (tips and learning)
seems to have died out at least 5 years ago. Months can go by
without a post now, and those are usually nostalgic, "Hey,
someone mentioned HC in an interesting article" type posts.

Most subscribers to the HC forum have probably canceled their
subscriptions. But those of us who were too lazy, or too
nostalgic, to do so never unsubscribed and are still around when
a post like yours pops up.

Tim

On 11/1/12 11:29 PM, Gene Henley wrote:
> Am I in the wrong forum?

The talk about what machine is good for HyperCard made me think back to what I used for programming my first CD-ROM (A Hard Day's Night), towards the end of 1992. I had the real mean machine in the office, which was a Mac IIsi, with 4 MB of RAM I think. We had a 2 MB Mac LC running System 7, and I made sure that the CD-ROM could work under those conditions.

This was a 16 MHz 68020 machine, and the CD-ROM featured grayscale graphics on the card (using Colorize HC) and a 90 minute QuickTime movie. So, any existing G4 ought to be capable of doing at least as well!

Which again begs the question,"IF one were to look at the name of this forum and think that it is here for its namesake,THEN might one question
if this is the wrong place to be to learn about HC,rather than to be repeatedly advised not to use it? Perhaps my flawed logic needs my study for
improvement.
Cheers
Gene Henley

From: Tim Selander
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [HC]



You're not on the wrong forum. You're on a very old forum. It was
extremely active in its day, with lots of people asking
questions, answering questions and learning how to use it for
lots of neat things. Just what you were hoping for, probably.

But, since Apple quit updating it, gradually people stopped using
it and moved onto other things, notably what is now known as
LiveCode. Many of us on the HC forum are also on the newer LC
forums. The normal function of the HC forum (tips and learning)
seems to have died out at least 5 years ago. Months can go by
without a post now, and those are usually nostalgic, "Hey,
someone mentioned HC in an interesting article" type posts.

Most subscribers to the HC forum have probably canceled their
subscriptions. But those of us who were too lazy, or too
nostalgic, to do so never unsubscribed and are still around when
a post like yours pops up.

Tim

On 11/1/12 11:29 PM, Gene Henley wrote:
> Am I in the wrong forum?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That`s what I`m talking about! More than just duly noted. I made hard copy,
and in my three ring.
Thanks
Cheers
Gene Henley


From: "Rebecca Bettencourt" <beckiergb@[redacted].com
To: <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]


> 16MB was a lot in HyperCard's day. Not so much anymore. When computers
> became able to handle higher-fidelity audio and higher-resolution
> color images, that's when you started smashing into that 16MB limit.
> :)
>
> (When the Resource Manager was designed, the Macintosh had 128K of RAM
> and 400K of disk space. To make the most efficient use of the space,
> it was considered acceptable for the Resource Manager to use 16-bit
> [signed!] integers as pointers into the resource map and 24-bit
> [unsigned, thankfully] integers as pointers into the resource data.
> Hence the 2^15 = 32K limit on the size of the resource map [reached
> when you had 2,727 resources, or fewer if any of them were named] and
> the 2^24 = 16MB limit on the size of the resource data.)
>
> IIRC the disk size limitation applied to either the startup disk or
> the disk HyperCard was on; I don't remember which one. The limitation
> existed because when doing certain operations (creating a new stack,
> compacting a stack, and editing a script are the ones I remember)
> HyperCard would try to calculate the remaining space on disk. Any
> drive with more than 2^31 = 2GB available would cause the 32-bit
> signed integer it used in the calculation to overflow, making
> HyperCard think the disk had some negative number of bytes left and
> thus get very confused. I think you can safely keep the stacks you're
> working on on a super-huge drive as long as HyperCard itself is on a
> <2GB disk.
>
> (I use a 2GB disk image with SheepShaver and a 24MB disk image with
> vMac myself.)
>
> -- Rebecca Bettencourt
>

Tim,

I still feel love & nostalgia for the combo of Hypercard and
Reports 9 to 5. I kept 5 separate databases ( 2 on mainframes )
from different vendors in synch for a Hospital Pharmacy. The
combo made this work productive, fun, and easy.

LiveCode ( it was then still called Revolution ) was just becoming
more usable but I never made that transition as I moved on due
to management issues.

I maintain a LiveCode license ( mainly because I want to support
their efforts ) but I have not seen ( I admit I haven't looked too hard )
anything within LiveCode that could replace the easy reporting
and printing of 9 to 5 Reports.

Has the reporting and printing within LiveCode improved so much
that one could "make programs that run on any modern computer,
and also would not need the "Reports 9 to 5" add-on" as you stated?

If so, I would probably get back into playing with LiveCode.

Ease of reporting was the key for me ( both the tables and the printed
reports and labels ).

Respectfully,

Rory Bolzer



On Nov 1, 2012, at Nov 1 - 12:14 AM, Tim Selander wrote:

> Gene,
>
> Given the machinery you run, and your stated willingness to use
> "good enough" hardware and software, for what I am taking to be
> "in-house" needs, I believe Hypercard/HyperTalk is worth your time.
>
> A lot of us are still using it in business settings. I should
> point out though, that I am also using an add-on product called
> "Reports 9 to 5" for Hypercard that really supercharges HC's
> printing/data reporting capabilities. This product gives me great
> database report capabilities (scriptable Invoices, sales reports,
> etc., etc.) that would be very hard, if not impossible, to do
> just in HC. But in all these years, I have not found a product
> that beats this HC and Reports add-on combo for my specific
> needs. So I still run G4 machines for my staff that uses the HC
> programs I've written. There are some quirks and pitfalls, but
> should you decided to go this route, folk on this list can help.
>
> As many others are pointing out, you need to know that HC will
> become almost useless to you, should you need to move to Intel
> Macs. However, also as others have pointed out, any effort you
> put into learning HC will be easily transferred to a product
> called "LiveCode" -- which will make programs that run on any
> modern computer, and also would not need the "Reports 9 to 5"
> add-on.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> On 10/31/12 11:07 PM, Gene Henley wrote:
>>
>>
>> Tim, I am not an accomplished programmer,nor do I strive to be one.
>> I merely want to know if HC is a viable productive addition to my
>> business tools."Proof of pudding."
>> I have a small in home MLM business. My CODB is carefully
>> analyzed. I do not know if HC has any fervent believers that
>> also input improvements to it. My task is to find out.
>> This is not a hobby. I`m not looking at it simply "Because it`s there."
>> I intend to use it,but only if it satisfies my business requirements.
>> Cheers
>> Gene Henley
>>
>> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com ( Now in Japan!)
>>
>> From: "Tim Selander" <selander@[redacted].attne.jp
>> <mailto:selander%40tkf.att.ne.jp>>
>> To: <HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:39 PM
>> Subject: Re: [HC]
>>
>>> Hi Gene,
>>>
>>> Those are great machines to run HC on. (Well, I'm not sure what
>>> an MDD is, but the others are good!)
>>>
>>> If you are looking to make software solutions for your personal
>>> or your company's use on those machines, HC is great -- go for
>>> it! If you want to make software to release/sell to other people,
>>> then HC will probably disappoint you.
>>>
>>> Tim Selander
>>> Tokyo, Japan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/31/12 6:04 AM, Gene Henley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a Quicksolver G4 Tiger,a Power PC 7200 with external SCSI burner,
>>>> an all-in one with OS 9.2,and
>>>> a MDD G4 Tiger.
>>>> Additionally, I have standby Dells with XP. Is there hope while there is
>>>> life?
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Gene H
>>>>
>>>> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com
>>>>
>>>> From: Alain Farmer
>>>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [HC]
>>>>
>>>> Hi Gene,
>>>>
>>>> If you have an old-mac and/or have an emulator (ex: sheepshaver), then
>>>> you can still use HyperCard usefully.
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise, the scriptors that I know [of] are using MetaCard or RunRev.
>>>>
>>>> In both cases, you would/will use these if you want to create desktop
>>>> applications.
>>>>
>>>> The Web is another animal.
>>>>
>>>> What Dan and other(s) are imagining (if I have grasped this thread
>>>> accurately) is the power and simplicity of HyperCard/HyperTalk if/when
>>>> the become web-native. Dynamic-HTML (HTML, CSS, Javascript) are still
>>>> too complicated for most people.
>>>>
>>>> Or perhaps this is just me plugging an old idea that I have not
>>>> accomplished yet, e.g. wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to author and
>>>> script the web as easily as it was to author and script HyperCard
>>>> stacks? UserLevels 1 (browse) and 2 (editing content) are a cinch. With
>>>> userLevel 3, we could co-author graphics; some tools exist in this
>>>> regard. UserLevel 4 (authoring) is do-able; I have seen many web-based
>>>> wysiwyg interface-building kits that allow drag & drop, etc. UserLevel 5
>>>> (scripting) is still R&D-ish; there are some tools for converting xTalk
>>>> into JavaScript. While I agree that JavaScript is no as easy as
>>>> HyperTalk, as a user of both I see the mappings rather
>>>> straightforwardly. I've not abandonned the project, but clearly it is
>>>> too-big for me to pull-off solo.
>>>>
>>>> Welcome to the HyperCard community, Gene. It's still alive! ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Alain
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net>> <mailto:mhenley2%40verizon.net> <mailto:mhenley2%40verizon.net>>
>>>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:44:29 PM
>>>> Subject: [HC]
>>>>
>>>> Thank you. I`ll not go through a series of "if/thens"
>>>> To the point. I have acquired a bunch of HC books,cd`s,and floppies.
>>>> I try to approach anything new to me as "one bite at a time",starting
>>>> from basics.
>>>> This will not be a hobby. I hope the result will be useful. I have a
>>>> very small
>>>> in home business. IF HC has little productive use,and IF there is little
>>>> hope
>>>> for fine tuning to productive usefulness,THEN I wonder why I expend the
>>>> energy.
>>>> On the other hand,perhaps the nay sayers are wrong.
>>>> You have my attention.
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Gene H
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

On 11/1/12 12:47 PM, Rory Bolzer wrote:

> Has the reporting and printing within LiveCode improved so much
> that one could "make programs that run on any modern computer,
> and also would not need the "Reports 9 to 5" add-on" as you stated?

There's Quartam Reports, a third-party add-on, that is supposed to do
most of that. I haven't used it yet.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Gene.


You have many responders, right? And many opinions, reminiscences and exhortations. Remember that I still use it and program in it today.


There is something you ought to know about all this; it might help you. Ready?


There is virtually no activity on the HC use list. None, nada. You, in fact, are it this quarter. And this from one of its most active erstwhile contributors, to the extent that I was able. But note how many people keep their membership alive, so that they engage in and reply to the occasional post now and then from questioners like yourself.


We lurk here not for help; we are all (ahem) quite adept. We linger because it is in our blood. I would say that almost all the respondents on the HC list are active on the LC lists.


That said,


There is no reason to make the effort to learn HC. This from someone, who, five years ago, tried to convince himself and anyone who would listen that HC was here to stay, was up to any task, and should be maintained, dammit, on principle, that principle being that a modern miracle, a veritable work of art, ought never be allowed to fade away.


I was not wrong, but I was mistaken. There is, at this point in time, no compelling reason to learn HC, and every reason to learn LC. I would have taken you under my wing in 2004 or so, and we would have tried to keep the faith together. I would not do that now. If you persist, you will be seen as an adorable throwback to a bygone age, endearing, maybe, but still almost childlike in your, what, stubbornness?


Regardless, you will enthusiastically get all the help you need from myself and all the others. That has not changed at all, in fact, that energy and faith has been ported intact to Livecode. You might check out one of the LiveCode lists to see the daily repartee there. It harkens back to the HC forums of 1999, and in its essential character, is indistinguishable.


So:



1- LiveCode is just as much fun to use and learn as HC, just fabulously more powerful and complete.



2- There is a considerable and growing activity on two separate groups for LiveCode, a program which is still being supported and developed.


So do what you will. Either way, you will have a blast, really, and we will all be there for you, in either environment. The questions you will initially ask will be the same. And at least you will have a hell of a head start if you eventually migrate to LiveCode, which you will if you really get to know and love Hypercard.


Craig Newman

Hi Rory,

I have not switched to LC for any "live" implementations at my
company, mainly because of Unicode. I need Japanese buttons,
prompts, dialogs, labels, and of course data. I found LC's
unicode hard to wrap my head around, and really tricky to get the
interface pieces in Japanese. Then I made some programming
mistakes just with character encoding that started destroying
data! User error, true, but really scared me off LC.

However, I did play with it long enough and with large enough
data sets, to learn I could replicate what I needed most out of
Reports. Was it as quick and easy, slick and fun? Well, no.
Reports has that table view that is so slick for ad hoc data
mining. LC didn't give me that easy interactive tool for
exploring data. But I could make it do all the printed reports I
would need: labels, invoices, various income & sales reports,
etc. etc.

At this point, since the HC programs we're using are pretty much
all we need, and only require occasional tweaking, it's cheaper
for the company to keep a supply of G4 machines on hand just for
that, than to cover the costs of my time re-writing the programs
with LC or something else that will let us use Intel Macs or
Windows boxes.

If we ever have a new project that needs a new program from the
ground up, I will bite the bullet, learn how to master LC's
implementation of unicode and use LC. (Unless something better
comes out in the meantime :-)

And as Jacques has said, there is a reports product for LC that I
would likely purchase if we make the move to LC in the future.

Tim



On 11/2/12 2:47 AM, Rory Bolzer wrote:
>
>
> Tim,
>
> I still feel love & nostalgia for the combo of Hypercard and
> Reports 9 to 5. I kept 5 separate databases ( 2 on mainframes )
> from different vendors in synch for a Hospital Pharmacy. The
> combo made this work productive, fun, and easy.
>
> LiveCode ( it was then still called Revolution ) was just becoming
> more usable but I never made that transition as I moved on due
> to management issues.
>
> I maintain a LiveCode license ( mainly because I want to support
> their efforts ) but I have not seen ( I admit I haven't looked too hard )
> anything within LiveCode that could replace the easy reporting
> and printing of 9 to 5 Reports.
>
> Has the reporting and printing within LiveCode improved so much
> that one could "make programs that run on any modern computer,
> and also would not need the "Reports 9 to 5" add-on" as you stated?
>
> If so, I would probably get back into playing with LiveCode.
>
> Ease of reporting was the key for me ( both the tables and the printed
> reports and labels ).
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Rory Bolzer
>
> On Nov 1, 2012, at Nov 1 - 12:14 AM, Tim Selander wrote:
>
> > Gene,
> >
> > Given the machinery you run, and your stated willingness to use
> > "good enough" hardware and software, for what I am taking to be
> > "in-house" needs, I believe Hypercard/HyperTalk is worth your time.
> >
> > A lot of us are still using it in business settings. I should
> > point out though, that I am also using an add-on product called
> > "Reports 9 to 5" for Hypercard that really supercharges HC's
> > printing/data reporting capabilities. This product gives me great
> > database report capabilities (scriptable Invoices, sales reports,
> > etc., etc.) that would be very hard, if not impossible, to do
> > just in HC. But in all these years, I have not found a product
> > that beats this HC and Reports add-on combo for my specific
> > needs. So I still run G4 machines for my staff that uses the HC
> > programs I've written. There are some quirks and pitfalls, but
> > should you decided to go this route, folk on this list can help.
> >
> > As many others are pointing out, you need to know that HC will
> > become almost useless to you, should you need to move to Intel
> > Macs. However, also as others have pointed out, any effort you
> > put into learning HC will be easily transferred to a product
> > called "LiveCode" -- which will make programs that run on any
> > modern computer, and also would not need the "Reports 9 to 5"
> > add-on.
> >
> > My 2 cents.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/31/12 11:07 PM, Gene Henley wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Tim, I am not an accomplished programmer,nor do I strive to be one.
> >> I merely want to know if HC is a viable productive addition to my
> >> business tools."Proof of pudding."
> >> I have a small in home MLM business. My CODB is carefully
> >> analyzed. I do not know if HC has any fervent believers that
> >> also input improvements to it. My task is to find out.
> >> This is not a hobby. I`m not looking at it simply "Because it`s there."
> >> I intend to use it,but only if it satisfies my business requirements.
> >> Cheers
> >> Gene Henley
> >>
> >> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com ( Now in Japan!)
> >>
> >> From: "Tim Selander" <selander@[redacted].attne.jp
> <mailto:selander%40tkf.att.ne.jp>
> >> <mailto:selander%40tkf.att.ne.jp>>
> >> To: <HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:39 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [HC]
> >>
> >>> Hi Gene,
> >>>
> >>> Those are great machines to run HC on. (Well, I'm not sure what
> >>> an MDD is, but the others are good!)
> >>>
> >>> If you are looking to make software solutions for your personal
> >>> or your company's use on those machines, HC is great -- go for
> >>> it! If you want to make software to release/sell to other people,
> >>> then HC will probably disappoint you.
> >>>
> >>> Tim Selander
> >>> Tokyo, Japan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 10/31/12 6:04 AM, Gene Henley wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I have a Quicksolver G4 Tiger,a Power PC 7200 with external SCSI
> burner,
> >>>> an all-in one with OS 9.2,and
> >>>> a MDD G4 Tiger.
> >>>> Additionally, I have standby Dells with XP. Is there hope while
> there is
> >>>> life?
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>> Gene H
> >>>>
> >>>> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com
> >>>>
> >>>> From: Alain Farmer
> >>>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
> >> <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:28 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [HC]
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Gene,
> >>>>
> >>>> If you have an old-mac and/or have an emulator (ex: sheepshaver), then
> >>>> you can still use HyperCard usefully.
> >>>>
> >>>> Otherwise, the scriptors that I know [of] are using MetaCard or
> RunRev.
> >>>>
> >>>> In both cases, you would/will use these if you want to create desktop
> >>>> applications.
> >>>>
> >>>> The Web is another animal.
> >>>>
> >>>> What Dan and other(s) are imagining (if I have grasped this thread
> >>>> accurately) is the power and simplicity of HyperCard/HyperTalk if/when
> >>>> the become web-native. Dynamic-HTML (HTML, CSS, Javascript) are still
> >>>> too complicated for most people.
> >>>>
> >>>> Or perhaps this is just me plugging an old idea that I have not
> >>>> accomplished yet, e.g. wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to
> author and
> >>>> script the web as easily as it was to author and script HyperCard
> >>>> stacks? UserLevels 1 (browse) and 2 (editing content) are a cinch.
> With
> >>>> userLevel 3, we could co-author graphics; some tools exist in this
> >>>> regard. UserLevel 4 (authoring) is do-able; I have seen many web-based
> >>>> wysiwyg interface-building kits that allow drag & drop, etc.
> UserLevel 5
> >>>> (scripting) is still R&D-ish; there are some tools for converting
> xTalk
> >>>> into JavaScript. While I agree that JavaScript is no as easy as
> >>>> HyperTalk, as a user of both I see the mappings rather
> >>>> straightforwardly. I've not abandonned the project, but clearly it is
> >>>> too-big for me to pull-off solo.
> >>>>
> >>>> Welcome to the HyperCard community, Gene. It's still alive! ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> Alain
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>> From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net> <mailto:mhenley2%40verizon.net>
> >> <mailto:mhenley2%40verizon.net> <mailto:mhenley2%40verizon.net>>
> >>>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
> >> <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:44:29 PM
> >>>> Subject: [HC]
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you. I`ll not go through a series of "if/thens"
> >>>> To the point. I have acquired a bunch of HC books,cd`s,and floppies.
> >>>> I try to approach anything new to me as "one bite at a time",starting
> >>>> from basics.
> >>>> This will not be a hobby. I hope the result will be useful. I have a
> >>>> very small
> >>>> in home business. IF HC has little productive use,and IF there is
> little
> >>>> hope
> >>>> for fine tuning to productive usefulness,THEN I wonder why I
> expend the
> >>>> energy.
> >>>> On the other hand,perhaps the nay sayers are wrong.
> >>>> You have my attention.
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>> Gene H
> >>>>
> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>
> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>

No, this is not the wrong place, it is the right place to learn
about HC. The archives are filled to overflowing with good stuff.
If you can't find an answer in the archives or have new
questions, ask them and you'll get answers.

I learned the most from reading this book:
<http://www.amazon.com/HyperTalk-2-2-Book-Dan-Winkler/dp/067979171X>;

Dan Winkler created HyperTalk, and one of his co-authors, Ms.
DeVoto, is (probably) still on this list.

I learned the next most from playing with tons of stacks others
had made. Many stacks are still widely available.

Finally, when I got stuck, I asked here and generally got unstuck.

Tim



On 11/2/12 1:04 AM, Gene Henley wrote:
>
>
>
> Which again begs the question,"IF one were to look at the name of this
> forum and think that it is here for its namesake,THEN might one question
> if this is the wrong place to be to learn about HC,rather than to be
> repeatedly advised not to use it? Perhaps my flawed logic needs my study for
> improvement.
> Cheers
> Gene Henley
>
> From: Tim Selander
> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 11:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [HC]
>
> You're not on the wrong forum. You're on a very old forum. It was
> extremely active in its day, with lots of people asking
> questions, answering questions and learning how to use it for
> lots of neat things. Just what you were hoping for, probably.
>
> But, since Apple quit updating it, gradually people stopped using
> it and moved onto other things, notably what is now known as
> LiveCode. Many of us on the HC forum are also on the newer LC
> forums. The normal function of the HC forum (tips and learning)
> seems to have died out at least 5 years ago. Months can go by
> without a post now, and those are usually nostalgic, "Hey,
> someone mentioned HC in an interesting article" type posts.
>
> Most subscribers to the HC forum have probably canceled their
> subscriptions. But those of us who were too lazy, or too
> nostalgic, to do so never unsubscribed and are still around when
> a post like yours pops up.
>
> Tim
>
> On 11/1/12 11:29 PM, Gene Henley wrote:
> > Am I in the wrong forum?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

I`m on it!
Thanks. While on the search, I found 4th edition,Danny Goodman,"Hypercard
2.2 Handbook"
I bought it. Now in process of buying book you recommend.
Cheers
Gene H

From: "Tim Selander" <selander@[redacted].attne.jp>
To: <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 3:41 AM
Subject: Re: [HC]


> No, this is not the wrong place, it is the right place to learn
> about HC. The archives are filled to overflowing with good stuff.
> If you can't find an answer in the archives or have new
> questions, ask them and you'll get answers.
>
> I learned the most from reading this book:
> <http://www.amazon.com/HyperTalk-2-2-Book-Dan-Winkler/dp/067979171X>;
>
> Dan Winkler created HyperTalk, and one of his co-authors, Ms.
> DeVoto, is (probably) still on this list.
>
> I learned the next most from playing with tons of stacks others
> had made. Many stacks are still widely available.
>
> Finally, when I got stuck, I asked here and generally got unstuck.
>
> Tim

Thanks,Tim.
Makes sense to me. :-) My reasoning also.
"Just the facts" :-) No evangelizing. No malarkey
Fact. I have three G4`s,each with Tiger and classic capability.
I also have a very reliable Dell with XP. Sigh. I`m left in the dust.
:-) Oh well .
Cheers
Gene Henley
www.thinkgene.stemtech.com
(In 24 countries and growing rapidly in Japan)
From: "Tim Selander" <selander@[redacted].attne.jp>
To: <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: [HC]


> Hi Rory,
>
> I have not switched to LC for any "live" implementations at my
> company, mainly because of Unicode. I need Japanese buttons,
> prompts, dialogs, labels, and of course data. I found LC's
> unicode hard to wrap my head around, and really tricky to get the
> interface pieces in Japanese. Then I made some programming
> mistakes just with character encoding that started destroying
> data! User error, true, but really scared me off LC.
>
> However, I did play with it long enough and with large enough
> data sets, to learn I could replicate what I needed most out of
> Reports. Was it as quick and easy, slick and fun? Well, no.
> Reports has that table view that is so slick for ad hoc data
> mining. LC didn't give me that easy interactive tool for
> exploring data. But I could make it do all the printed reports I
> would need: labels, invoices, various income & sales reports,
> etc. etc.
>
> At this point, since the HC programs we're using are pretty much
> all we need, and only require occasional tweaking, it's cheaper
> for the company to keep a supply of G4 machines on hand just for
> that, than to cover the costs of my time re-writing the programs
> with LC or something else that will let us use Intel Macs or
> Windows boxes.
>
> If we ever have a new project that needs a new program from the
> ground up, I will bite the bullet, learn how to master LC's
> implementation of unicode and use LC. (Unless something better
> comes out in the meantime :-)
>
> And as Jacques has said, there is a reports product for LC that I
> would likely purchase if we make the move to LC in the future.
>
> Tim

On 11/2/12 2:34 AM, Tim Selander wrote:
> Hi Rory,
>
> I have not switched to LC for any "live" implementations at my
> company, mainly because of Unicode. I need Japanese buttons,
> prompts, dialogs, labels, and of course data. I found LC's
> unicode hard to wrap my head around, and really tricky to get the
> interface pieces in Japanese.

Yeah, it was a mess. It's been rewritten recently with the goal of being
able to parse unicode text normally (words, lines, chars, etc.) and the
screwy syntax has been removed. It's new so there are probably a few
glitches, but it's way better than before.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Your statement is a simple declarative. Not a given.
Cheers
Gene Henley

From: hcheaven@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 2:57 PM
Subject: [HC] Re: Steve Jobs



> KISS! Keep it Simple

Using an outdated program that has many limitations isn't "keep it simple".

I'm honestly not sure why you seem so determined to use HyperCard for your
business. Is it because it's free?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 11/2/12 2:06 PM, Gene Henley wrote:
> Your statement is a simple declarative. Not a given.

I think if you keep analyzing the grammar instead of the intent,
responses will stop.

Buy the books, give HC a try, and when you have scripting questions,
write back.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Analyzing the grammer at that point will help a lot ; )

c

On Nov 2, 2012, at 3:35 PM, J. Landman Gay <jacque@[redacted].com wrote:

> Buy the books, give HC a try, and when you have scripting questions,
> write back.

Whose responses will stop? Are you suggesting I analyze intent?
Finally. Last sentence is a confusing imperative.
I`ll try to analyze. IF I by the books,then give HC a try. WHEN I have questions write back.
Otherwise,"responses will stop." I haven`t gotten to intent yet. Bear with me. :-)
Cheers
Gene Henley
www.thinkgene.stemtech.biz



From: J. Landman Gay
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]



On 11/2/12 2:06 PM, Gene Henley wrote:
> Your statement is a simple declarative. Not a given.

I think if you keep analyzing the grammar instead of the intent,
responses will stop.

Buy the books, give HC a try, and when you have scripting questions,
write back.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is it a HyperCard stack?
Cheers
Gene Henley

From: Michael Mays
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [HC] Re: Steve Jobs



What's that method of fishing where one or more fishing lines, baited with lures or bait fish, are drawn through the water?

Michael
On Nov 2, 2012, at 1:57 PM, hcheaven@[redacted].comwrote:

>> KISS! Keep it Simple
>
> Using an outdated program that has many limitations isn't "keep it simple".
>
>
> I'm honestly not sure why you seem so determined to use HyperCard for your
> business. Is it because it's free?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>

On 11/2/12 2:36 PM, Catherine Kunicki wrote:
> Analyzing the grammer at that point will help a lot ; )

I was thinking some of his remarks here could be broken into short lines
and indented, and he'd be halfway to HyperTalk already. :)

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

This discussion is making me think seriously about getting an used MacMini G4/OS 9 at eBay to run Hypercard again.
Harold

On 02/11/2012, at 20:01, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> On 11/2/12 2:36 PM, Catherine Kunicki wrote:
> > Analyzing the grammer at that point will help a lot ; )
>
> I was thinking some of his remarks here could be broken into short lines
> and indented, and he'd be halfway to HyperTalk already. :)
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].com> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>

Why not? . Just break some remarks into short lines and indent.
I look for this in Danny Goodman`s HyperCard Hand book.Whew .
I gave up after page 500 out over 1100. There has to be a better way.
I think go back to page one and take each in turn. Who knows? I might
find something useful. :-)

Cheers
Gene Henley

www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com


From: "Haroldo Mauro" <hmauro@[redacted].com
To: <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]


> This discussion is making me think seriously about getting an used MacMini
> G4/OS 9 at eBay to run Hypercard again.
> Harold
>
> On 02/11/2012, at 20:01, J. Landman Gay wrote:
>
>> On 11/2/12 2:36 PM, Catherine Kunicki wrote:
>> > Analyzing the grammer at that point will help a lot ; )
>>
>> I was thinking some of his remarks here could be broken into short lines
>> and indented, and he'd be halfway to HyperTalk already. :)
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].com>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>
>
>
>

Gene.


Really. Stop this.


You are dealing with a crew of expert programmers. Most do this for a living. We all know all about software and its relationship to business.


Nobody doubts your abilities or experience.


But stop trying to play in this arena until you can write code that works, and hopefully performs a useful task, and have done so for decades.


Especially, please, can the IF/THEN stuff. It was cute the very first time, because I, at least, saw an incipient eagerness that is always welcome in the xTalk world.


Learn HC. We will help beyond what you can possibly believe.


Get going.


Craig Newman

Gene.


Colin's post is spot on. The idea that this forum is, or is not, a tutorial, is not pertinent. It is and it isn't.


You will get all the help you need; you won't believe it. Your enthusiasm about my little stack exercises is encouraging. You have a lot of work to do.. You will succeed, You will have fun in spite of yourself.


Go forward. Stay up late.


Craig Newman



-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Sat, Nov 3, 2012 6:49 am
Subject: Re: [HC] HC]


IF this opinion is a reflection of the official policy of this forum,THEN I
am indeed on the wrong discussion list.
Before I proceed further,as I stated previously, I AM A BEGINNER. I think
it`s selfish for me to waste the
time of expert programmers that :
1. Have stated HC is dead,long live LiveCode
2. This list is not for beginners
3. Post litanies of " Don`t use HC. (Sigh,You poor
misguided person.)

So, again I respectfully request guidance. For beginner,YES OR NO!
Respectfully submitted
Gene Henley

www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com

Indeed!
Cheers
Gene H
www.stemtechbiz.com

From: DunbarX@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]



Gene.

Colin's post is spot on. The idea that this forum is, or is not, a tutorial, is not pertinent. It is and it isn't.

You will get all the help you need; you won't believe it. Your enthusiasm about my little stack exercises is encouraging. You have a lot of work to do. You will succeed, You will have fun in spite of yourself.

Go forward. Stay up late.

Craig Newman

--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Tim Selander <selander@...> wrote:
> I have not switched to LC for any "live" implementations at my
> company, mainly because of Unicode. I need Japanese buttons,
> prompts, dialogs, labels, and of course data.

How did you handle Unicode in HyperCard?

It didn't have unicode as such, I don't think. But if I installed
the Japanese version of OS9, or the Japanese Language Kit into
the English OS9, then Japanese input, scripting, UI bits,
everything, "just worked" -- just the same as using straight
English. No extra commands or functions needed.

Tim Selander



On 11/6/12 9:35 AM, richard g wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Tim Selander <selander@...> wrote:
> > I have not switched to LC for any "live" implementations at my
> > company, mainly because of Unicode. I need Japanese buttons,
> > prompts, dialogs, labels, and of course data.
>
> How did you handle Unicode in HyperCard?
>
>

My apologies if this is a duplicate. Mail is acting up...

On Nov 5, 2012, at 8:13 PM, Tim Selander wrote:

> It didn't have unicode as such, I don't think. But if I installed
> the Japanese version of OS9, or the Japanese Language Kit into
> the English OS9, then Japanese input, scripting, UI bits,
> everything, "just worked" -- just the same as using straight
> English. No extra commands or functions needed.
>
> Tim Selander


Those were the days. I did every version of Chinese and Japanese that way.


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

On Oct 31, 2012, at 12:39 AM, Tim Selander <selander@[redacted].attne.jp> wrote:
> (Well, I'm not sure what
> an MDD is, but the others are good!)

It stands for "Mirrored Drive Doors". It's one of the silver PowerMac G4s.

Cheers,
-- Uli Kusterer
"The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..."
http://www.zathras.de

On 31.10.2012, at 21:31, geradamas <richmond@[redacted].maclaunchcom> wrote:
> And, in that light, I think Runtime Revolution might make a small profit by releasing an older version of their Livecode for Mac PPC Classic.

They won't. That little profit would be eaten up by people using it ending up in support. Also, adding such a version means people trying to buy LC will have another choice (that is not relevant to them), so it will actually reduce sales for the current version, and cause additional support to switch people who accidentally bought the wrong version.

Releasing software is a *lot* more work than just developing it. It's simply not worth it spending effort on maintaining the scaffolding to keep an older version of software going (for use, I'm not even talking about patches or bugfixes), not to mention that the people you'd sell that old version to are, metaphorically speaking, dying out.

Cheers,
-- Uli Kusterer
"The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..."
http://www.zathras.de

On 01.11.2012, at 00:58, Rebecca Bettencourt <beckiergb@[redacted].com wrote:
> The resource fork allows 16MB. Not 64K, not 128K; 16MB.

Or 2727 individual resources, whichever is lower. There's also various other limits that are harder to pin down, hence Resource Manager's propensity to unceremoniously blow up when files got big. I thought I'd blogged about it once, but Google doesn't seem to find that post anymore.

I remember them mostly being that certain offsets are specified with 16-bit numbers (i.e. 0...65535), so that e.g. if the resource map is more than 65535 bytes (~64k) away from the start of the file, that will also hit a limit.

Cheers,
-- Uli Kusterer
"The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mac-gui-dev/

Yeah, I mentioned that earlier. All the offsets within the resource map are
16-bit signed integers, so there's actually a ~32K limit on the size of the
resource map. The resource map actually comes at the very end of the file;
the limitation is on its size, not its position. But there is a ~16MB limit
on the size of the resource fork because the offsets to the resource data
are 24-bit integers.
On Nov 6, 2012 12:17 PM, "Uli Kusterer" <Witness.of.TeachText@[redacted].net
wrote:

> **
>
>
> On 01.11.2012, at 00:58, Rebecca Bettencourt <beckiergb@[redacted].com wrote:
> > The resource fork allows 16MB. Not 64K, not 128K; 16MB.
>
> Or 2727 individual resources, whichever is lower. There's also various
> other limits that are harder to pin down, hence Resource Manager's
> propensity to unceremoniously blow up when files got big. I thought I'd
> blogged about it once, but Google doesn't seem to find that post anymore.
>
> I remember them mostly being that certain offsets are specified with
> 16-bit numbers (i.e. 0...65535), so that e.g. if the resource map is more
> than 65535 bytes (~64k) away from the start of the file, that will also hit
> a limit.
>
> Cheers,
> -- Uli Kusterer
> "The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..."
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mac-gui-dev/
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, life before Unicode was a much simpler world. That is, if you happened to speak a language addressed by Latin-ISO 8859-1. ;)

As a single-platform product dependent on a multilingual subsystem long since abandoned in favor of Unicode, HyperCard had a much easier time with Japanese than LiveCode does.

Even with Unicode, if LiveCode were limited to just one platform, instead of the five it currently support, it could probably implement it at a much lower cost.

I wonder if SuperCard's handling of Unicode may help provide what you need. I haven't used it myself in some time, but as an exclusively Mac product it may be able to provide a simplicity that LiveCode won't be able to provide completely for all of its platforms for at least another few months.


--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Tim Selander <selander@...> wrote:
>
> It didn't have unicode as such, I don't think. But if I installed
> the Japanese version of OS9, or the Japanese Language Kit into
> the English OS9, then Japanese input, scripting, UI bits,
> everything, "just worked" -- just the same as using straight
> English. No extra commands or functions needed.
>
> Tim Selander
>
>
>
> On 11/6/12 9:35 AM, richard g wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Tim Selander <selander@> wrote:
> > > I have not switched to LC for any "live" implementations at my
> > > company, mainly because of Unicode. I need Japanese buttons,
> > > prompts, dialogs, labels, and of course data.
> >
> > How did you handle Unicode in HyperCard?
> >
> >
>

On 11/9/12 1:00 PM, richard g wrote:

> I wonder if SuperCard's handling of Unicode may help provide what you
> need. I haven't used it myself in some time, but as an exclusively
> Mac product it may be able to provide a simplicity that LiveCode
> won't be able to provide completely for all of its platforms for at
> least another few months.

HC just plugged into the Mac OS language APIs. I suspect SuperCard does
the same. As you say, that isn't so easy when you're running on any of
five or six different operating systems. If LiveCode were Mac-only then
it could easily let the OS handle text.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

I have just been playing with a Supercard demo, and the sacrifice it makes to be able to be "very Mac-centric", unlike Runtime Revolution Livecode, is that it restricts itself to a minority operating system.
When one considers that Linux seems to be overtaking Macintosh, and the rise of hand-held devices throws in more operating systems, the 'advantages' of Supercard compared with how Livecode "does" with Macintosh really don't seem worth it.

--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque@...> wrote:
>
> On 11/9/12 1:00 PM, richard g wrote:
>
> > I wonder if SuperCard's handling of Unicode may help provide what you
> > need. I haven't used it myself in some time, but as an exclusively
> > Mac product it may be able to provide a simplicity that LiveCode
> > won't be able to provide completely for all of its platforms for at
> > least another few months.
>
> HC just plugged into the Mac OS language APIs. I suspect SuperCard does
> the same. As you say, that isn't so easy when you're running on any of
> five or six different operating systems. If LiveCode were Mac-only then
> it could easily let the OS handle text.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@...
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>

On Nov 14, 2012, at 2:24 PM, geradamas <richmond@[redacted].maclaunchcom> wrote:
> I have just been playing with a Supercard demo, and the sacrifice it makes to be able to be "very Mac-centric", unlike Runtime Revolution Livecode, is that it restricts itself to a minority operating system.
> When one considers that Linux seems to be overtaking Macintosh, and the rise of hand-held devices throws in more operating systems, the 'advantages' of Supercard compared with how Livecode "does" with Macintosh really don't seem worth it.


In what way is Linux overtaking the Mac? Surely that depends on your target audience and what markets you're looking at. What use is it that there are more PCs out there running Linux than Macs, if they run mostly as web servers, media centers, hardware control panels, routers or set-top-boxes, and the few of them that are used as personal computers are usually set up for people as work machines, or for newbies as web browsing stations.

I have yet to see any statistic that indicates that end-users who actually buy software and install software on their computers on their own can be found in greater numbers under Linux than they could be on MacOS.

I'm not saying LiveCode isn't a better choice than SuperCard *for you*. But I would like to point out that this second paragraph of yours is a sweeping generalization.

Cheers,
-- Uli Kusterer
"The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..."
http://www.zathras.de

"a sweeping generalization" - but naturally: but then it is probably just as true as all the other sweeping generalisations going the rounds re the future of computers.

Certainly, to put lots of effort into designing software that will only run on Macintosh computers does seem rather uneconomical when the vast majority of personal computers are not running Macintosh.

Therefore, while Supercard has some things that RunRev Livecode would be better with, I would still invest in Livecode rather than Supercard.

--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Uli Kusterer <Witness.of.TeachText@...> wrote:
>
> On Nov 14, 2012, at 2:24 PM, geradamas <richmond@...> wrote:
> > I have just been playing with a Supercard demo, and the sacrifice it makes to be able to be "very Mac-centric", unlike Runtime Revolution Livecode, is that it restricts itself to a minority operating system.
> > When one considers that Linux seems to be overtaking Macintosh, and the rise of hand-held devices throws in more operating systems, the 'advantages' of Supercard compared with how Livecode "does" with Macintosh really don't seem worth it.
>
>
> In what way is Linux overtaking the Mac? Surely that depends on your target audience and what markets you're looking at. What use is it that there are more PCs out there running Linux than Macs, if they run mostly as web servers, media centers, hardware control panels, routers or set-top-boxes, and the few of them that are used as personal computers are usually set up for people as work machines, or for newbies as web browsing stations.
>
> I have yet to see any statistic that indicates that end-users who actually buy software and install software on their computers on their own can be found in greater numbers under Linux than they could be on MacOS.
>
> I'm not saying LiveCode isn't a better choice than SuperCard *for you*. But I would like to point out that this second paragraph of yours is a sweeping generalization.
>
> Cheers,
> -- Uli Kusterer
> "The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..."
> http://www.zathras.de
>

<Witness.of.TeachText@...> wrote:
> In what way is Linux overtaking the Mac?

If we limit the Linux count to the desktop, there are only about 1/3 as many users as Mac folk.

But consider the larger view of our ubiquitous computing world, where Linux drives two-thirds of all smartphones, a majority of servers, 95% of supercomputers, and nearly all embedded systems.

Most people use Linux all day long and never realize it, from their wifi router, to trading stocks, to banking, the Web, and more.

And a few of us enjoy it on our laptops too. :)

That`s what I`m talking about. Just the facts. The verbiage of "troll, malarkey, ` justify your why`, (thinly veiled and outright animosity for personal OS and application choices,sotto voce) ,........... as I have read on this forum in the past, HAVE NO GOOD REASON to be posted on this HyperCard forum. I am a moderator on another
forum which will remain un named. My policy is to immediately, admonish perps for such conduct. I`ve read none of this admonishment here.
SO, I applaud the post from richard g. It is an opinion written in the manner I would expect from all members of this forum. NO EXCEPTIONS,and no excuses.
That`s the way I see it. I happen to agree with Richard.
That`s not all I agree with as I reference past posts. I agree that HyperCard may well be rendered less than useful than software being compiled by current and future programmers. I agree that some will shift away from XP,and go onward to OS 7 OS 8,etc.( I will make it a given that software will be written that works well on either PC
or Mac platforms). I will stipulate that many still insist on using their"obsolete G4`s with Tiger,(Poor misguided.....) Are these persons mandated to justify their why`s?
Some may be in business of their own,and have evaluated their own CODB carefully. They do what they see as following their own prudent decision. I once posted my own simple principle. "We are given a wonderful power of " Freedom to choose." Notice I did not say "RIGHT to choose." I am not quibbling about verbiage. I am pointing out that utilization of this power is not necessarily "right or correct". I am fallible. Perhaps I have not pursued the if/thens in the manner I was taught.
Having said that, I believe in the free enterprise system,and cogent utilization of power to choose.
I appreciate the work that programmers do. I appreciate the motives to improve our usage of software. What I do not approve,and see no excuse,is the derision that
some have for those that have made choices that they have analyzed for themselves. So,folks, I have not read such recently. I hope none are posted in the future.Programmers! IMHO, you are in the market place. Your better programs will rise to the top or sink because of these forces. I see no need for attaching lead
weights to "obsolete software" and pitching it over the side,or "Don`t use XXXX software because you are not qualified to judge. After all,you are not a pro with status."
These tactics are counter productive. In the market place,better software will win.
That`s the way I see it. Respectfully
Gene Henley
Still studying HyperCard
Still using Tiger G4`s
Still using Dell PC`s with XP.
Still reading about Linux.
Still analyzing my own dreams,goals,and desires
and implementing them as I see fit.Still writing
my presentations to fit my product line.
Regards
Gene Henley
www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com



From: richard g
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]



<Witness.of.TeachText@...> wrote:
> In what way is Linux overtaking the Mac?

If we limit the Linux count to the desktop, there are only about 1/3 as many users as Mac folk.

But consider the larger view of our ubiquitous computing world, where Linux drives two-thirds of all smartphones, a majority of servers, 95% of supercomputers, and nearly all embedded systems.

Most people use Linux all day long and never realize it, from their wifi router, to trading stocks, to banking, the Web, and more.

And a few of us enjoy it on our laptops too. :)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gene.


So have you gotten hold of "Hypertalk 2.2, the Book" yet? Indispensable.


Have you written any of the little stacks yet? Study by doing.


Craig Newman

If we count people using Linux/Linux like/Unix then we have to count every Mac user not running system <=9, right?

Michael

On Nov 14, 2012, at 17:25 , "richard g" <Ambassador@[redacted].com wrote:

> <Witness.of.TeachText@...> wrote:
>> In what way is Linux overtaking the Mac?
>
> If we limit the Linux count to the desktop, there are only about 1/3 as many users as Mac folk.
>
> But consider the larger view of our ubiquitous computing world, where Linux drives two-thirds of all smartphones, a majority of servers, 95% of supercomputers, and nearly all embedded systems.
>
> Most people use Linux all day long and never realize it, from their wifi router, to trading stocks, to banking, the Web, and more.
>
> And a few of us enjoy it on our laptops too. :)

Nope. No stacks.
I have
1. Apple pub 034-0617-A "HyperCard Installation and New
2.
From: DunbarX@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [HC]



Gene.

So have you gotten hold of "Hypertalk 2.2, the Book" yet? Indispensable.

Have you written any of the little stacks yet? Study by doing.

Craig Newman

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Thu, Nov 15, 2012 9:45 am
Subject: [HC]

That`s what I`m talking about. Just the facts. The verbiage of "troll, malarkey, ` justify your why`, (thinly veiled and outright animosity for personal OS and application choices,sotto voce) ,........... as I have read on this forum in the past, HAVE NO GOOD REASON to be posted on this HyperCard forum. I am a moderator on another
forum which will remain un named. My policy is to immediately, admonish perps for such conduct. I`ve read none of this admonishment here.
SO, I applaud the post from richard g. It is an opinion written in the manner I would expect from all members of this forum. NO EXCEPTIONS,and no excuses.
That`s the way I see it. I happen to agree with Richard.
That`s not all I agree with as I reference past posts. I agree that HyperCard may well be rendered less than useful than software being compiled by current and future programmers. I agree that some will shift away from XP,and go onward to OS 7 OS 8,etc.( I will make it a given that software will be written that works well on either PC
or Mac platforms). I will stipulate that many still insist on using their"obsolete G4`s with Tiger,(Poor misguided.....) Are these persons mandated to justify their why`s?
Some may be in business of their own,and have evaluated their own CODB carefully. They do what they see as following their own prudent decision. I once posted my own simple principle. "We are given a wonderful power of " Freedom to choose." Notice I did not say "RIGHT to choose." I am not quibbling about verbiage. I am pointing out that utilization of this power is not necessarily "right or correct". I am fallible. Perhaps I have not pursued the if/thens in the manner I was taught.
Having said that, I believe in the free enterprise system,and cogent utilization of power to choose.
I appreciate the work that programmers do. I appreciate the motives to improve our usage of software. What I do not approve,and see no excuse,is the derision that
some have for those that have made choices that they have analyzed for themselves. So,folks, I have not read such recently. I hope none are posted in the future.Programmers! IMHO, you are in the market place. Your better programs will rise to the top or sink because of these forces. I see no need for attaching lead
weights to "obsolete software" and pitching it over the side,or "Don`t use XXXX software because you are not qualified to judge. After all,you are not a pro with status."
These tactics are counter productive. In the market place,better software will win.
That`s the way I see it. Respectfully
Gene Henley
Still studying HyperCard
Still using Tiger G4`s
Still using Dell PC`s with XP.
Still reading about Linux.
Still analyzing my own dreams,goals,and desires
and implementing them as I see fit.Still writing
my presentations to fit my product line.
Regards
Gene Henley
www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com

From: richard g
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]

<Witness.of.TeachText@...> wrote:
> In what way is Linux overtaking the Mac?

If we limit the Linux count to the desktop, there are only about 1/3 as many users as Mac folk.

But consider the larger view of our ubiquitous computing world, where Linux drives two-thirds of all smartphones, a majority of servers, 95% of supercomputers, and nearly all embedded systems.

Most people use Linux all day long and never realize it, from their wifi router, to trading stocks, to banking, the Web, and more.

And a few of us enjoy it on our laptops too. :)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nope. No stacks.
I have
1. Apple pub 034-0617-A "HyperCard Installation and New Features,1998
2. "HyperCard 2.2 Handbook" Goodman
3. "Educator`s Guide to HyperCard & Hypertalk" 1993 Culp & Watkins,Univ. of Texas
4. HyperCard "Headstart downloads for 2.3 Free series" 1994
5. "HyperCard 2.3 in a Hurry" ,Beekman 1996
Note: I pondered buying this because I`m NOT in a hurry. :-)

I have not included previous Hypercard versions I have.
Perhaps good as collector items.

Many thanks
Cheers
Gene Henley

<



From: DunbarX@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [HC]



Gene.

So have you gotten hold of "Hypertalk 2.2, the Book" yet? Indispensable.

Have you written any of the little stacks yet? Study by doing.

Craig Newman

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Thu, Nov 15, 2012 9:45 am
Subject: [HC]

That`s what I`m talking about. Just the facts. The verbiage of "troll, malarkey, ` justify your why`, (thinly veiled and outright animosity for personal OS and application choices,sotto voce) ,........... as I have read on this forum in the past, HAVE NO GOOD REASON to be posted on this HyperCard forum. I am a moderator on another
forum which will remain un named. My policy is to immediately, admonish perps for such conduct. I`ve read none of this admonishment here.
SO, I applaud the post from richard g. It is an opinion written in the manner I would expect from all members of this forum. NO EXCEPTIONS,and no excuses.
That`s the way I see it. I happen to agree with Richard.
That`s not all I agree with as I reference past posts. I agree that HyperCard may well be rendered less than useful than software being compiled by current and future programmers. I agree that some will shift away from XP,and go onward to OS 7 OS 8,etc.( I will make it a given that software will be written that works well on either PC
or Mac platforms). I will stipulate that many still insist on using their"obsolete G4`s with Tiger,(Poor misguided.....) Are these persons mandated to justify their why`s?
Some may be in business of their own,and have evaluated their own CODB carefully. They do what they see as following their own prudent decision. I once posted my own simple principle. "We are given a wonderful power of " Freedom to choose." Notice I did not say "RIGHT to choose." I am not quibbling about verbiage. I am pointing out that utilization of this power is not necessarily "right or correct". I am fallible. Perhaps I have not pursued the if/thens in the manner I was taught.
Having said that, I believe in the free enterprise system,and cogent utilization of power to choose.
I appreciate the work that programmers do. I appreciate the motives to improve our usage of software. What I do not approve,and see no excuse,is the derision that
some have for those that have made choices that they have analyzed for themselves. So,folks, I have not read such recently. I hope none are posted in the future.Programmers! IMHO, you are in the market place. Your better programs will rise to the top or sink because of these forces. I see no need for attaching lead
weights to "obsolete software" and pitching it over the side,or "Don`t use XXXX software because you are not qualified to judge. After all,you are not a pro with status."
These tactics are counter productive. In the market place,better software will win.
That`s the way I see it. Respectfully
Gene Henley
Still studying HyperCard
Still using Tiger G4`s
Still using Dell PC`s with XP.
Still reading about Linux.
Still analyzing my own dreams,goals,and desires
and implementing them as I see fit.Still writing
my presentations to fit my product line.
Regards
Gene Henley
www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com

From: richard g
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]

<Witness.of.TeachText@...> wrote:
> In what way is Linux overtaking the Mac?

If we limit the Linux count to the desktop, there are only about 1/3 as many users as Mac folk.

But consider the larger view of our ubiquitous computing world, where Linux drives two-thirds of all smartphones, a majority of servers, 95% of supercomputers, and nearly all embedded systems.

Most people use Linux all day long and never realize it, from their wifi router, to trading stocks, to banking, the Web, and more.

And a few of us enjoy it on our laptops too. :)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Why?
"IF we count......,then we have to.........................,right?" "Right" is appended at end. Why not "wrong"?
Gene Henley


From: Michael Mays
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [HC]




If we count people using Linux/Linux like/Unix then we have to count every Mac user not running system <=9, right?
Michael

On Nov 14, 2012, at 17:25 , "richard g" <Ambassador@[redacted].com wrote:




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have several of the Hypertalk books. They comfort me. I will send you one if you will pay the postage.


Craig Newman



-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Thu, Nov 15, 2012 11:01 am
Subject: [HC]






Nope. No stacks.
I have
1. Apple pub 034-0617-A "HyperCard Installation and New Features,1998
2. "HyperCard 2.2 Handbook" Goodman
3. "Educator`s Guide to HyperCard & Hypertalk" 1993 Culp & Watkins,Univ. of Texas
4. HyperCard "Headstart downloads for 2.3 Free series" 1994
5. "HyperCard 2.3 in a Hurry" ,Beekman 1996
Note: I pondered buying this because I`m NOT in a hurry. :-)

I have not included previous Hypercard versions I have.
Perhaps good as collector items.

Many thanks
Cheers
Gene Henley

<

From: DunbarX@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [HC]

Gene.

So have you gotten hold of "Hypertalk 2.2, the Book" yet? Indispensable.

Have you written any of the little stacks yet? Study by doing.

Craig Newman

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Thu, Nov 15, 2012 9:45 am
Subject: [HC]

That`s what I`m talking about. Just the facts. The verbiage of "troll, malarkey, ` justify your why`, (thinly veiled and outright animosity for personal OS and application choices,sotto voce) ,........... as I have read on this forum in the past, HAVE NO GOOD REASON to be posted on this HyperCard forum. I am a moderator on another
forum which will remain un named. My policy is to immediately, admonish perps for such conduct. I`ve read none of this admonishment here.
SO, I applaud the post from richard g. It is an opinion written in the manner I would expect from all members of this forum. NO EXCEPTIONS,and no excuses.
That`s the way I see it. I happen to agree with Richard.
That`s not all I agree with as I reference past posts. I agree that HyperCard may well be rendered less than useful than software being compiled by current and future programmers. I agree that some will shift away from XP,and go onward to OS 7 OS 8,etc.( I will make it a given that software will be written that works well on either PC
or Mac platforms). I will stipulate that many still insist on using their"obsolete G4`s with Tiger,(Poor misguided.....) Are these persons mandated to justify their why`s?
Some may be in business of their own,and have evaluated their own CODB carefully. They do what they see as following their own prudent decision. I once posted my own simple principle. "We are given a wonderful power of " Freedom to choose." Notice I did not say "RIGHT to choose." I am not quibbling about verbiage. I am pointing out that utilization of this power is not necessarily "right or correct". I am fallible. Perhaps I have not pursued the if/thens in the manner I was taught.
Having said that, I believe in the free enterprise system,and cogent utilization of power to choose.
I appreciate the work that programmers do. I appreciate the motives to improve our usage of software. What I do not approve,and see no excuse,is the derision that
some have for those that have made choices that they have analyzed for themselves. So,folks, I have not read such recently. I hope none are posted in the future.Programmers! IMHO, you are in the market place. Your better programs will rise to the top or sink because of these forces. I see no need for attaching lead
weights to "obsolete software" and pitching it over the side,or "Don`t use XXXX software because you are not qualified to judge. After all,you are not a pro with status."
These tactics are counter productive. In the market place,better software will win.
That`s the way I see it. Respectfully
Gene Henley
Still studying HyperCard
Still using Tiger G4`s
Still using Dell PC`s with XP.
Still reading about Linux.
Still analyzing my own dreams,goals,and desires
and implementing them as I see fit.Still writing
my presentations to fit my product line.
Regards
Gene Henley
www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com

From: richard g
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]

<Witness.of.TeachText@...> wrote:
> In what way is Linux overtaking the Mac?

If we limit the Linux count to the desktop, there are only about 1/3 as many users as Mac folk.

But consider the larger view of our ubiquitous computing world, where Linux drives two-thirds of all smartphones, a majority of servers, 95% of supercomputers, and nearly all embedded systems.

Most people use Linux all day long and never realize it, from their wifi router, to trading stocks, to banking, the Web, and more.

And a few of us enjoy it on our laptops too. :)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I look for 2.3 or later. I have 2.4 on cd`s with supporting info.
I also have a pile of info on earlier HyperCard, floppies, pubs
and a PowerMac with proper floppy drive/external CD SCSI burner.
Other than finding a transient interest in early background of
HC, I probably will donate older versions.
What do you have?
Thanks
Cheers
Gene H

www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com




From: DunbarX@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]



I have several of the Hypertalk books. They comfort me. I will send you one if you will pay the postage.

Craig Newman

--
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Thu, Nov 15, 2012 11:01 am
Subject: [HC]

Nope. No stacks.
I have
1. Apple pub 034-0617-A "HyperCard Installation and New Features,1998
2. "HyperCard 2.2 Handbook" Goodman
3. "Educator`s Guide to HyperCard & Hypertalk" 1993 Culp & Watkins,Univ. of Texas
4. HyperCard "Headstart downloads for 2.3 Free series" 1994
5. "HyperCard 2.3 in a Hurry" ,Beekman 1996
Note: I pondered buying this because I`m NOT in a hurry. :-)

I have not included previous Hypercard versions I have.
Perhaps good as collector items.

Many thanks
Cheers
Gene Henley

<

From: DunbarX@[redacted].com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Michael Mays <michael@...> wrote:
> If we count people using Linux/Linux like/Unix then we have to
> count every Mac user not running system <=9, right?

If were were including all POSIX systems that would be a fair count, but with OS X's kernel being originally derived from BSD there are enough differences from Linux that I would count Mac OS as its own thing (man, do I miss some of the utilities like the "free" command when I'm using the OS X terminal <g>).

But even all POSIX systems combined barely make a dent in the desktop market. Sadly, some might say tragically, Windows continues to enjoy some 86% of the desktop.

--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, "Gene Henley" <mhenley2@...> wrote:
> SO, I applaud the post from richard g. It is an opinion written
> in the manner I would expect from all members of this forum. NO
> EXCEPTIONS,and no excuses.

Very kind of you to say, though I should warn you I can at times be a bit of a Linux fanboy. ;)

Along those lines, and keeping this forum on-topic, if you find your interest in Linux goes as far as setting up an Ubuntu install, even just on a VM with the free Virtual Box available for OS X, you can find me on the Ubuntu forums with the screen name rg4w.

If you have any questions about Ubuntu or Linux in general, I'm no expert but I'd be glad to help if I can. With so much Linux all around us I've found it invaluable in my continued education in computing.

Gene.


The last version of this book is 2.2. It is all you need.

What is title?
Cheers
Gene H


From: DunbarX@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]



Gene.

The last version of this book is 2.2. It is all you need.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Thu, Nov 15, 2012 1:04 pm
Subject: [HC]

I look for 2.3 or later. I have 2.4 on cd`s with supporting info.
I also have a pile of info on earlier HyperCard, floppies, pubs
and a PowerMac with proper floppy drive/external CD SCSI burner.
Other than finding a transient interest in early background of
HC, I probably will donate older versions.
What do you have?
Thanks
Cheers
Gene H

www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com

From: DunbarX@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]

I have several of the Hypertalk books. They comfort me. I will send you one if you will pay the postage.

Craig Newman

--
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Thu, Nov 15, 2012 11:01 am
Subject: [HC]

Nope. No stacks.
I have
1. Apple pub 034-0617-A "HyperCard Installation and New Features,1998
2. "HyperCard 2.2 Handbook" Goodman
3. "Educator`s Guide to HyperCard & Hypertalk" 1993 Culp & Watkins,Univ. of Texas
4. HyperCard "Headstart downloads for 2.3 Free series" 1994
5. "HyperCard 2.3 in a Hurry" ,Beekman 1996
Note: I pondered buying this because I`m NOT in a hurry. :-)

I have not included previous Hypercard versions I have.
Perhaps good as collector items.

Many thanks
Cheers
Gene Henley

<

From: DunbarX@[redacted].com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Many thanks. So far,local Mac or PC groups do not encourage Linux discussions. SO, see ya later.
Thanks
Cheers
Gene H

From: richard g
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]



--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, "Gene Henley" <mhenley2@...> wrote:
> SO, I applaud the post from richard g. It is an opinion written
> in the manner I would expect from all members of this forum. NO
> EXCEPTIONS,and no excuses.

Very kind of you to say, though I should warn you I can at times be a bit of a Linux fanboy. ;)

Along those lines, and keeping this forum on-topic, if you find your interest in Linux goes as far as setting up an Ubuntu install, even just on a VM with the free Virtual Box available for OS X, you can find me on the Ubuntu forums with the screen name rg4w.

If you have any questions about Ubuntu or Linux in general, I'm no expert but I'd be glad to help if I can. With so much Linux all around us I've found it invaluable in my continued education in computing.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For free try

top -l 1 -n 0

Michael

On Nov 15, 2012, at 12:04 , "richard g" <Ambassador@[redacted].com wrote:

> --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Michael Mays <michael@...> wrote:
>> If we count people using Linux/Linux like/Unix then we have to
>> count every Mac user not running system <=9, right?
>
> If were were including all POSIX systems that would be a fair count, but with OS X's kernel being originally derived from BSD there are enough differences from Linux that I would count Mac OS as its own thing (man, do I miss some of the utilities like the "free" command when I'm using the OS X terminal <g>).
>
> But even all POSIX systems combined barely make a dent in the desktop market. Sadly, some might say tragically, Windows continues to enjoy some 86% of the desktop.
>
>
>
>

Gene.


I mean the one I spoke of several times. "Hypertalk 2.2, The Book" by Dan Winkler, Scott Kamins and Jeanne DeVoto.



You need that one and the Goodman. That is all you need.



Craig Newman

I defer to your suggestion.
Please get back to me on
my personal email.
Cheers
Thanks
Gene H

From: DunbarX@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]



Gene.

I mean the one I spoke of several times. "Hypertalk 2.2, The Book" by Dan Winkler, Scott Kamins and Jeanne DeVoto.

You need that one and the Goodman. That is all you need.

Craig Newman

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Thu, Nov 15, 2012 1:57 pm
Subject: [HC]

What is title?
Cheers
Gene H

From: DunbarX@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]

Gene.

The last version of this book is 2.2. It is all you need.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Thu, Nov 15, 2012 1:04 pm
Subject: [HC]

I look for 2.3 or later. I have 2.4 on cd`s with supporting info.
I also have a pile of info on earlier HyperCard, floppies, pubs
and a PowerMac with proper floppy drive/external CD SCSI burner.
Other than finding a transient interest in early background of
HC, I probably will donate older versions.
What do you have?
Thanks
Cheers
Gene H

www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com

From: DunbarX@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]

I have several of the Hypertalk books. They comfort me. I will send you one if you will pay the postage.

Craig Newman

--
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Thu, Nov 15, 2012 11:01 am
Subject: [HC]

Nope. No stacks.
I have
1. Apple pub 034-0617-A "HyperCard Installation and New Features,1998
2. "HyperCard 2.2 Handbook" Goodman
3. "Educator`s Guide to HyperCard & Hypertalk" 1993 Culp & Watkins,Univ. of Texas
4. HyperCard "Headstart downloads for 2.3 Free series" 1994
5. "HyperCard 2.3 in a Hurry" ,Beekman 1996
Note: I pondered buying this because I`m NOT in a hurry. :-)

I have not included previous Hypercard versions I have.
Perhaps good as collector items.

Many thanks
Cheers
Gene Henley

<

From: DunbarX@[redacted].com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Michael Mays <michael@...> wrote:
>
> For free try
>
> top -l 1 -n 0

Nice! Thanks, Michael.

On 11/16/12 1:37 PM, richard g wrote:
> --- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, Michael Mays <michael@...> wrote:
>>
>> For free try
>>
>> top -l 1 -n 0
>
> Nice! Thanks, Michael.

You'll try anything for free. :)

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Hi Gene,

Look in the HC Home stack. You will find 5 different user levels there. If you set the user level to 3, you can't change scripts or add controls, but you can browse, type and paint.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer
KvK: 50277553

Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com



On 30 okt 2012, at 16:52, Gene Henley wrote:

>
> I am a beginner. I defer to those 'that know."
>
> Which begs my question, (Given that level 3 is not as useful now as the way it was), "Is HC restricted to level 3"
> Respectfully
> Gene H

I am a beginner. I defer to those 'that know."

Which begs my question, (Given that level 3 is not as useful now as the way it was), "Is HC restricted to level 3"
Respectfully
Gene H

www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com

From: D
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [HC] Steve Jobs



> What is lacking today is a programing environment (small p no quotes) which captures the simplicity and functionality of HyperCard.

Web.

> I don't understand your thought experiment.

Open a blank browser window. Mentally choose New Button and New Field, drag the new parts around, double click them to choose icons. Pretend it has persistence and everything you make is autosaved. Now you have Hypercard user level 3. Is it genuinely useful now in the way it was? Or has the world changed and this is not valuable? Perhaps you can find a philosophical midpoint?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The last card of the Home stack lets you set the default userlevel. Or if you can show the message box, or have "blind typing" on, you can type "set the user level to 5" in there.


On Oct 30, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net wrote:

> >Which begs my question, (Given that level 3 is not as useful now as the way it was), "Is HC restricted to level 3"



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you. I`ll not go through a series of "if/thens"
To the point. I have acquired a bunch of HC books,cd`s,and floppies.
I try to approach anything new to me as "one bite at a time",starting
from basics.
This will not be a hobby. I hope the result will be useful. I have a very small
in home business. IF HC has little productive use,and IF there is little hope
for fine tuning to productive usefulness,THEN I wonder why I expend the energy.
On the other hand,perhaps the nay sayers are wrong.
You have my attention.
Cheers
Gene H


www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com

Hi Gene,

If you have an old-mac and/or have an emulator (ex: sheepshaver), then you can still use HyperCard usefully.

Otherwise, the scriptors that I know [of] are using MetaCard or RunRev.

In both cases, you would/will use these if you want to create desktop applications.

The Web is another animal.

What Dan and other(s) are imagining (if I have grasped this thread accurately) is the power and simplicity of HyperCard/HyperTalk if/when the become web-native. Dynamic-HTML (HTML, CSS, Javascript) are still too complicated for most people.

Or perhaps this is just me plugging an old idea that I have not accomplished yet, e.g. wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to author and script the web as easily as it was to author and script HyperCard stacks? UserLevels 1 (browse) and 2 (editing content) are a cinch. With userLevel 3, we could co-author graphics; some tools exist in this regard. UserLevel 4 (authoring) is do-able; I have seen many web-based wysiwyg interface-building kits that allow drag & drop, etc. UserLevel 5 (scripting) is still R&D-ish; there are some tools for converting xTalk into JavaScript. While I agree that JavaScript is no as easy as HyperTalk, as a user of both I see the mappings rather straightforwardly. I've not abandonned the project, but clearly it is too-big for me to pull-off solo.

Welcome to the HyperCard community, Gene. It's still alive!  ;-)

Alain

I have a Quicksolver G4 Tiger,a Power PC 7200 with external SCSI burner, an all-in one with OS 9.2,and
a MDD G4 Tiger.
Additionally, I have standby Dells with XP. Is there hope while there is life?
Cheers
Gene H

www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com



From: Alain Farmer
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]



Hi Gene,

If you have an old-mac and/or have an emulator (ex: sheepshaver), then you can still use HyperCard usefully.

Otherwise, the scriptors that I know [of] are using MetaCard or RunRev.

In both cases, you would/will use these if you want to create desktop applications.

The Web is another animal.

What Dan and other(s) are imagining (if I have grasped this thread accurately) is the power and simplicity of HyperCard/HyperTalk if/when the become web-native. Dynamic-HTML (HTML, CSS, Javascript) are still too complicated for most people.

Or perhaps this is just me plugging an old idea that I have not accomplished yet, e.g. wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to author and script the web as easily as it was to author and script HyperCard stacks? UserLevels 1 (browse) and 2 (editing content) are a cinch. With userLevel 3, we could co-author graphics; some tools exist in this regard. UserLevel 4 (authoring) is do-able; I have seen many web-based wysiwyg interface-building kits that allow drag & drop, etc. UserLevel 5 (scripting) is still R&D-ish; there are some tools for converting xTalk into JavaScript. While I agree that JavaScript is no as easy as HyperTalk, as a user of both I see the mappings rather straightforwardly. I've not abandonned the project, but clearly it is too-big for me to pull-off solo.

Welcome to the HyperCard community, Gene. It's still alive! ;-)

Alain

________________________________
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:44:29 PM
Subject: [HC]




Thank you. I`ll not go through a series of "if/thens"
To the point. I have acquired a bunch of HC books,cd`s,and floppies.
I try to approach anything new to me as "one bite at a time",starting
from basics.
This will not be a hobby. I hope the result will be useful. I have a very small
in home business. IF HC has little productive use,and IF there is little hope
for fine tuning to productive usefulness,THEN I wonder why I expend the energy.
On the other hand,perhaps the nay sayers are wrong.
You have my attention.
Cheers
Gene H

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Gene,

Those are great machines to run HC on. (Well, I'm not sure what
an MDD is, but the others are good!)

If you are looking to make software solutions for your personal
or your company's use on those machines, HC is great -- go for
it! If you want to make software to release/sell to other people,
then HC will probably disappoint you.

Tim Selander
Tokyo, Japan



On 10/31/12 6:04 AM, Gene Henley wrote:
>
>
> I have a Quicksolver G4 Tiger,a Power PC 7200 with external SCSI burner,
> an all-in one with OS 9.2,and
> a MDD G4 Tiger.
> Additionally, I have standby Dells with XP. Is there hope while there is
> life?
> Cheers
> Gene H
>
> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com
>
> From: Alain Farmer
> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [HC]
>
> Hi Gene,
>
> If you have an old-mac and/or have an emulator (ex: sheepshaver), then
> you can still use HyperCard usefully.
>
> Otherwise, the scriptors that I know [of] are using MetaCard or RunRev.
>
> In both cases, you would/will use these if you want to create desktop
> applications.
>
> The Web is another animal.
>
> What Dan and other(s) are imagining (if I have grasped this thread
> accurately) is the power and simplicity of HyperCard/HyperTalk if/when
> the become web-native. Dynamic-HTML (HTML, CSS, Javascript) are still
> too complicated for most people.
>
> Or perhaps this is just me plugging an old idea that I have not
> accomplished yet, e.g. wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to author and
> script the web as easily as it was to author and script HyperCard
> stacks? UserLevels 1 (browse) and 2 (editing content) are a cinch. With
> userLevel 3, we could co-author graphics; some tools exist in this
> regard. UserLevel 4 (authoring) is do-able; I have seen many web-based
> wysiwyg interface-building kits that allow drag & drop, etc. UserLevel 5
> (scripting) is still R&D-ish; there are some tools for converting xTalk
> into JavaScript. While I agree that JavaScript is no as easy as
> HyperTalk, as a user of both I see the mappings rather
> straightforwardly. I've not abandonned the project, but clearly it is
> too-big for me to pull-off solo.
>
> Welcome to the HyperCard community, Gene. It's still alive! ;-)
>
> Alain
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net<mailto:mhenley2%40verizon.net>>
> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:44:29 PM
> Subject: [HC]
>
> Thank you. I`ll not go through a series of "if/thens"
> To the point. I have acquired a bunch of HC books,cd`s,and floppies.
> I try to approach anything new to me as "one bite at a time",starting
> from basics.
> This will not be a hobby. I hope the result will be useful. I have a
> very small
> in home business. IF HC has little productive use,and IF there is little
> hope
> for fine tuning to productive usefulness,THEN I wonder why I expend the
> energy.
> On the other hand,perhaps the nay sayers are wrong.
> You have my attention.
> Cheers
> Gene H
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

On Oct 30, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Tim Selander wrote:

> Those are great machines to run HC on. (Well, I'm not sure what
> an MDD is, but the others are good!)

It's the last G4 Apple made.


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

Tim, I am not an accomplished programmer,nor do I strive to be one.
I merely want to know if HC is a viable productive addition to my
business tools."Proof of pudding."
I have a small in home MLM business. My CODB is carefully
analyzed. I do not know if HC has any fervent believers that
also input improvements to it. My task is to find out.
This is not a hobby. I`m not looking at it simply "Because it`s there."
I intend to use it,but only if it satisfies my business requirements.
Cheers
Gene Henley

www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com ( Now in Japan!)



From: "Tim Selander" <selander@[redacted].attne.jp>
To: <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]


> Hi Gene,
>
> Those are great machines to run HC on. (Well, I'm not sure what
> an MDD is, but the others are good!)
>
> If you are looking to make software solutions for your personal
> or your company's use on those machines, HC is great -- go for
> it! If you want to make software to release/sell to other people,
> then HC will probably disappoint you.
>
> Tim Selander
> Tokyo, Japan
>
>
>
> On 10/31/12 6:04 AM, Gene Henley wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have a Quicksolver G4 Tiger,a Power PC 7200 with external SCSI burner,
>> an all-in one with OS 9.2,and
>> a MDD G4 Tiger.
>> Additionally, I have standby Dells with XP. Is there hope while there is
>> life?
>> Cheers
>> Gene H
>>
>> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com
>>
>> From: Alain Farmer
>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [HC]
>>
>> Hi Gene,
>>
>> If you have an old-mac and/or have an emulator (ex: sheepshaver), then
>> you can still use HyperCard usefully.
>>
>> Otherwise, the scriptors that I know [of] are using MetaCard or RunRev.
>>
>> In both cases, you would/will use these if you want to create desktop
>> applications.
>>
>> The Web is another animal.
>>
>> What Dan and other(s) are imagining (if I have grasped this thread
>> accurately) is the power and simplicity of HyperCard/HyperTalk if/when
>> the become web-native. Dynamic-HTML (HTML, CSS, Javascript) are still
>> too complicated for most people.
>>
>> Or perhaps this is just me plugging an old idea that I have not
>> accomplished yet, e.g. wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to author and
>> script the web as easily as it was to author and script HyperCard
>> stacks? UserLevels 1 (browse) and 2 (editing content) are a cinch. With
>> userLevel 3, we could co-author graphics; some tools exist in this
>> regard. UserLevel 4 (authoring) is do-able; I have seen many web-based
>> wysiwyg interface-building kits that allow drag & drop, etc. UserLevel 5
>> (scripting) is still R&D-ish; there are some tools for converting xTalk
>> into JavaScript. While I agree that JavaScript is no as easy as
>> HyperTalk, as a user of both I see the mappings rather
>> straightforwardly. I've not abandonned the project, but clearly it is
>> too-big for me to pull-off solo.
>>
>> Welcome to the HyperCard community, Gene. It's still alive! ;-)
>>
>> Alain
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net<mailto:mhenley2%40verizon.net>>
>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:44:29 PM
>> Subject: [HC]
>>
>> Thank you. I`ll not go through a series of "if/thens"
>> To the point. I have acquired a bunch of HC books,cd`s,and floppies.
>> I try to approach anything new to me as "one bite at a time",starting
>> from basics.
>> This will not be a hobby. I hope the result will be useful. I have a
>> very small
>> in home business. IF HC has little productive use,and IF there is little
>> hope
>> for fine tuning to productive usefulness,THEN I wonder why I expend the
>> energy.
>> On the other hand,perhaps the nay sayers are wrong.
>> You have my attention.
>> Cheers
>> Gene H
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

Gene,

It is not a viable program because the program is dead. If the people writing emulators stop and/or the old hardware it is running on dies and cannot be repaired, that is it. But IMO if you believe that Stemtech malarky then I think HyperCard is more than adequate for your business.

Michael

On Oct 31, 2012, at 9:07 AM, Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net wrote:

> Tim, I am not an accomplished programmer,nor do I strive to be one.
> I merely want to know if HC is a viable productive addition to my
> business tools."Proof of pudding."
> I have a small in home MLM business. My CODB is carefully
> analyzed. I do not know if HC has any fervent believers that
> also input improvements to it. My task is to find out.
> This is not a hobby. I`m not looking at it simply "Because it`s there."
> I intend to use it,but only if it satisfies my business requirements.
> Cheers
> Gene Henley
>
> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com ( Now in Japan!)
>
>
>
> From: "Tim Selander" <selander@[redacted].attne.jp>
> To: <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [HC]
>
>
>> Hi Gene,
>>
>> Those are great machines to run HC on. (Well, I'm not sure what
>> an MDD is, but the others are good!)
>>
>> If you are looking to make software solutions for your personal
>> or your company's use on those machines, HC is great -- go for
>> it! If you want to make software to release/sell to other people,
>> then HC will probably disappoint you.
>>
>> Tim Selander
>> Tokyo, Japan
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/31/12 6:04 AM, Gene Henley wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I have a Quicksolver G4 Tiger,a Power PC 7200 with external SCSI burner,
>>> an all-in one with OS 9.2,and
>>> a MDD G4 Tiger.
>>> Additionally, I have standby Dells with XP. Is there hope while there is
>>> life?
>>> Cheers
>>> Gene H
>>>
>>> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com
>>>
>>> From: Alain Farmer
>>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [HC]
>>>
>>> Hi Gene,
>>>
>>> If you have an old-mac and/or have an emulator (ex: sheepshaver), then
>>> you can still use HyperCard usefully.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, the scriptors that I know [of] are using MetaCard or RunRev.
>>>
>>> In both cases, you would/will use these if you want to create desktop
>>> applications.
>>>
>>> The Web is another animal.
>>>
>>> What Dan and other(s) are imagining (if I have grasped this thread
>>> accurately) is the power and simplicity of HyperCard/HyperTalk if/when
>>> the become web-native. Dynamic-HTML (HTML, CSS, Javascript) are still
>>> too complicated for most people.
>>>
>>> Or perhaps this is just me plugging an old idea that I have not
>>> accomplished yet, e.g. wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to author and
>>> script the web as easily as it was to author and script HyperCard
>>> stacks? UserLevels 1 (browse) and 2 (editing content) are a cinch. With
>>> userLevel 3, we could co-author graphics; some tools exist in this
>>> regard. UserLevel 4 (authoring) is do-able; I have seen many web-based
>>> wysiwyg interface-building kits that allow drag & drop, etc. UserLevel 5
>>> (scripting) is still R&D-ish; there are some tools for converting xTalk
>>> into JavaScript. While I agree that JavaScript is no as easy as
>>> HyperTalk, as a user of both I see the mappings rather
>>> straightforwardly. I've not abandonned the project, but clearly it is
>>> too-big for me to pull-off solo.
>>>
>>> Welcome to the HyperCard community, Gene. It's still alive! ;-)
>>>
>>> Alain
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net<mailto:mhenley2%40verizon.net>>
>>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:44:29 PM
>>> Subject: [HC]
>>>
>>> Thank you. I`ll not go through a series of "if/thens"
>>> To the point. I have acquired a bunch of HC books,cd`s,and floppies.
>>> I try to approach anything new to me as "one bite at a time",starting
>>> from basics.
>>> This will not be a hobby. I hope the result will be useful. I have a
>>> very small
>>> in home business. IF HC has little productive use,and IF there is little
>>> hope
>>> for fine tuning to productive usefulness,THEN I wonder why I expend the
>>> energy.
>>> On the other hand,perhaps the nay sayers are wrong.
>>> You have my attention.
>>> Cheers
>>> Gene H
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

I use HC all day every day, have done so for 25 years.


But the world has moved on. Go to runRev.com, and check out LiveCode. It is what HC would have become had it been supported by Apple. Much prettier, far more powerful, but the very same idea.


Craig Newman



-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Wed, Oct 31, 2012 10:07 am
Subject: [HC]





Tim, I am not an accomplished programmer,nor do I strive to be one.
I merely want to know if HC is a viable productive addition to my
business tools."Proof of pudding."
I have a small in home MLM business. My CODB is carefully
analyzed. I do not know if HC has any fervent believers that
also input improvements to it. My task is to find out.
This is not a hobby. I`m not looking at it simply "Because it`s there."
I intend to use it,but only if it satisfies my business requirements.
Cheers
Gene Henley

www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com ( Now in Japan!)

From: "Tim Selander" <selander@[redacted].attne.jp>
To: <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]

> Hi Gene,
>
> Those are great machines to run HC on. (Well, I'm not sure what
> an MDD is, but the others are good!)
>
> If you are looking to make software solutions for your personal
> or your company's use on those machines, HC is great -- go for
> it! If you want to make software to release/sell to other people,
> then HC will probably disappoint you.
>
> Tim Selander
> Tokyo, Japan
>
>
>
> On 10/31/12 6:04 AM, Gene Henley wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have a Quicksolver G4 Tiger,a Power PC 7200 with external SCSI burner,
>> an all-in one with OS 9.2,and
>> a MDD G4 Tiger.
>> Additionally, I have standby Dells with XP. Is there hope while there is
>> life?
>> Cheers
>> Gene H
>>
>> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com
>>
>> From: Alain Farmer
>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>;
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [HC]
>>
>> Hi Gene,
>>
>> If you have an old-mac and/or have an emulator (ex: sheepshaver), then
>> you can still use HyperCard usefully.
>>
>> Otherwise, the scriptors that I know [of] are using MetaCard or RunRev.
>>
>> In both cases, you would/will use these if you want to create desktop
>> applications.
>>
>> The Web is another animal.
>>
>> What Dan and other(s) are imagining (if I have grasped this thread
>> accurately) is the power and simplicity of HyperCard/HyperTalk if/when
>> the become web-native. Dynamic-HTML (HTML, CSS, Javascript) are still
>> too complicated for most people.
>>
>> Or perhaps this is just me plugging an old idea that I have not
>> accomplished yet, e.g. wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to author and
>> script the web as easily as it was to author and script HyperCard
>> stacks? UserLevels 1 (browse) and 2 (editing content) are a cinch. With
>> userLevel 3, we could co-author graphics; some tools exist in this
>> regard. UserLevel 4 (authoring) is do-able; I have seen many web-based
>> wysiwyg interface-building kits that allow drag & drop, etc. UserLevel 5
>> (scripting) is still R&D-ish; there are some tools for converting xTalk
>> into JavaScript. While I agree that JavaScript is no as easy as
>> HyperTalk, as a user of both I see the mappings rather
>> straightforwardly. I've not abandonned the project, but clearly it is
>> too-big for me to pull-off solo.
>>
>> Welcome to the HyperCard community, Gene. It's still alive! ;-)
>>
>> Alain
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net<mailto:mhenley2%40verizon.net>>;
>> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>;
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:44:29 PM
>> Subject: [HC]
>>
>> Thank you. I`ll not go through a series of "if/thens"
>> To the point. I have acquired a bunch of HC books,cd`s,and floppies.
>> I try to approach anything new to me as "one bite at a time",starting
>> from basics.
>> This will not be a hobby. I hope the result will be useful. I have a
>> very small
>> in home business. IF HC has little productive use,and IF there is little
>> hope
>> for fine tuning to productive usefulness,THEN I wonder why I expend the
>> energy.
>> On the other hand,perhaps the nay sayers are wrong.
>> You have my attention.
>> Cheers
>> Gene H
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

From: DunbarX@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [HC]



I use HC all day every day, have done so for 25 years.<<<<<<<<<

++++++++++++++==+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

By choice? Why?

==================================================================================

But the world has moved on. <<<<<<<<<<

==========================================================

Does this imply that I must follow this "world" that moved on? Is there a hidden imperative in there?

============================================================================

Go to runRev.com, and check out LiveCode. It is what HC would have become had it been supported by Apple. Much prettier, far more powerful, but the very same idea.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

=============================================================================================
An imperative leads the way. Next comes a declarative,followed by another. So,you use HC every day, BUT the world has moved on? IF so,

is there a logical THEN says I must follow? Am I finding an implied " You are left behind UNLESS trotting along with that "world"? :-) Cheers

Gene Henley


Craig Newman

From: hcheaven@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 11:52 AM
Subject: [HC] Re: Steve Jobs



> I will evaluate " outdated and little used" ( By users?)...

I love HyperCard, but it's an outdated, discontinued program. It doesn't
even run on modern Macs except in emmulation, and few people use it these
days.

But if you want to use it, great, go for it. <<<<<

=======================================

I haven`t made it a given that I want to use it.

So,that IF is still under analysis.

=====================================



It can still be fun and can
still be useful.<<<<<<<<<

==============================================

Duly noted,but I have not made fun a priority. Personal usefulness is.

Thanks :-)

Cheers

Gene H

> check whether or not HC is still "cool",in its day. (What day?)



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hmmm.


Hi.


I am a HC diehard, like others you have heard from. I have a large longstanding investment in HC for my business, and use it every day. I just, in fact, wrote a large new application.


One can always get old G4's and run natively. This is an option, I suppose if you were set on embracing HC for the future.


But.


If you were already a competent HC programmer, you would have an 90% head start if you suddenly changed to Livecode. I did. Same paradigm, same structural form and format. LC is a vast superset of HC.


But you are not, so the option of choosing one over the other ought to be quite clear: LiveCode. You will soon be proficient in that environment, as you would in HC, but work in a modern supported language that is just as simple and fun to learn and use, but contains far more power.


Years ago, there was a light nostalgic discussion about whether diehards should continue with their old beloved program. But for a newbie, there is no compelling reason at all to do so. If there was something essential missing from LC that was part of HC, I would say so. There is not. This comes from one of the oldest of those diehards.

On 10/31/12 11:21 AM, Gene Henley wrote:

> An imperative leads the way. Next comes a declarative,followed by
> another. So,you use HC every day, BUT the world has moved on? IF
> so,
>
> is there a logical THEN says I must follow? Am I finding an implied "
> You are left behind UNLESS trotting along with that "world"? :-)

People are trying to be polite, which is a trademark of this list. Put
more baldly, it goes like this:

HyperCard has been dead for 20 years. It will only run on very old Macs
and has a limited feature set. If you plan to use the software only for
yourself, and you are willing to maintain old machines and forgo any
modern features then it should work for you.

HyperCard has far fewer capabilities than newer software like LiveCode.
For all but the most basic things you will need to find add-ons called
externals. There were thousands of those though, and if you can track
them down you will be able to expand its feature set to include almost
everything that was supported 20 years ago.

Some of its limitations:

No support for modern networking protocols
No support for color
No support for vector graphics (artwork must be black and white bitmaps
in MacPaint format)
No support for native internet access
No support for mobile devices
No support for common programming structures like arrays
Limited support for custom code libraries
Limited support for object grouping (2 groups only)
Icons cannot be larger than 32 pixels square
Audio is limited to a single non-standard format and can not exceed 10
seconds
The number of resources per stack (audio, icons, externals, etc) is
limited to the size of the Mac resource fork (64K)
I/O is limited to serial port communications (i.e., modems and printers)

And a bunch more. I still use HyperCard frequently as well, but only to
extract data in order to port old files to LiveCode. Those who are still
using it daily most likely have utility stacks that they need and which
they have not ported to something else yet. I was in that position
myself for several years.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

Thank you. I have nowhere stated,hinted,inferred,or written that am set on embracing HC for future. This is not a given.
I also have stated that I have a 7200 PowerPC/120 with its internal floppy drive/connected to an external SCSI
burner. I note you suppose that one can run `older` G4s natively. They either will or will not. I don`t see this connected
as cause/effect to "set on embracing HC for the future". Please note. The demands on my computers are not high because
the in home business I am in reduces it to simplicity. KISS. Keep It Simple & Substantive. (Unless that principle is malarkey)
:-)
Cheers
Gene
www.thinkgene.thinkgene.com



From: DunbarX@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]



Hmmm.

Hi.

I am a HC diehard, like others you have heard from. I have a large longstanding investment in HC for my business, and use it every day. I just, in fact, wrote a large new application.

One can always get old G4's and run natively. This is an option, I suppose if you were set on embracing HC for the future.

But.

If you were already a competent HC programmer, you would have an 90% head start if you suddenly changed to Livecode. I did. Same paradigm, same structural form and format. LC is a vast superset of HC.

But you are not, so the option of choosing one over the other ought to be quite clear: LiveCode. You will soon be proficient in that environment, as you would in HC, but work in a modern supported language that is just as simple and fun to learn and use, but contains far more power.

Years ago, there was a light nostalgic discussion about whether diehards should continue with their old beloved program. But for a newbie, there is no compelling reason at all to do so. If there was something essential missing from LC that was part of HC, I would say so. There is not. This comes from one of the oldest of those diehards.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Wed, Oct 31, 2012 12:22 pm
Subject: [HC]

From: DunbarX@[redacted].com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gene.


Excellent. Keep it simple.


Get LiveCode. You will love it. You will quite soon learn to use it effectively, and have a blast along the way. What Jacque did not mention is that there exists a lively LC community, but only a legacy HC one. You have just had first hand experience with that older group. Each is eager to help anyone that asks.


LC, right? Get going.


Craig Newman



-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Wed, Oct 31, 2012 2:11 pm
Subject: [HC]





Thank you. I have nowhere stated,hinted,inferred,or written that am set on embracing HC for future. This is not a given.
I also have stated that I have a 7200 PowerPC/120 with its internal floppy drive/connected to an external SCSI
burner. I note you suppose that one can run `older` G4s natively. They either will or will not. I don`t see this connected
as cause/effect to "set on embracing HC for the future". Please note. The demands on my computers are not high because
the in home business I am in reduces it to simplicity. KISS. Keep It Simple & Substantive. (Unless that principle is malarkey)
:-)
Cheers
Gene
www.thinkgene.thinkgene.com

From: DunbarX@[redacted].com
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]

Hmmm.

Hi.

I am a HC diehard, like others you have heard from. I have a large longstanding investment in HC for my business, and use it every day. I just, in fact, wrote a large new application.

One can always get old G4's and run natively. This is an option, I suppose if you were set on embracing HC for the future.

But.

If you were already a competent HC programmer, you would have an 90% head start if you suddenly changed to Livecode. I did. Same paradigm, same structural form and format. LC is a vast superset of HC.

But you are not, so the option of choosing one over the other ought to be quite clear: LiveCode. You will soon be proficient in that environment, as you would in HC, but work in a modern supported language that is just as simple and fun to learn and use, but contains far more power.

Years ago, there was a light nostalgic discussion about whether diehards should continue with their old beloved program. But for a newbie, there is no compelling reason at all to do so. If there was something essential missing from LC that was part of HC, I would say so. There is not. This comes from one of the oldest of those diehards.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net
To: HyperCard <HyperCard-Mailing-List>
Sent: Wed, Oct 31, 2012 12:22 pm
Subject: [HC]

From: DunbarX@[redacted].com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And, in that light, I think Runtime Revolution might make a small profit by releasing an older version of their Livecode for Mac PPC Classic.

--- In HyperCard-Mailing-List, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque@...> wrote:
>
> On 10/31/12 11:21 AM, Gene Henley wrote:
>
> > An imperative leads the way. Next comes a declarative,followed by
> > another. So,you use HC every day, BUT the world has moved on? IF
> > so,
> >
> > is there a logical THEN says I must follow? Am I finding an implied "
> > You are left behind UNLESS trotting along with that "world"? :-)
>
> People are trying to be polite, which is a trademark of this list. Put
> more baldly, it goes like this:
>
> HyperCard has been dead for 20 years. It will only run on very old Macs
> and has a limited feature set. If you plan to use the software only for
> yourself, and you are willing to maintain old machines and forgo any
> modern features then it should work for you.
>
> HyperCard has far fewer capabilities than newer software like LiveCode.
> For all but the most basic things you will need to find add-ons called
> externals. There were thousands of those though, and if you can track
> them down you will be able to expand its feature set to include almost
> everything that was supported 20 years ago.
>
> Some of its limitations:
>
> No support for modern networking protocols
> No support for color
> No support for vector graphics (artwork must be black and white bitmaps
> in MacPaint format)
> No support for native internet access
> No support for mobile devices
> No support for common programming structures like arrays
> Limited support for custom code libraries
> Limited support for object grouping (2 groups only)
> Icons cannot be larger than 32 pixels square
> Audio is limited to a single non-standard format and can not exceed 10
> seconds
> The number of resources per stack (audio, icons, externals, etc) is
> limited to the size of the Mac resource fork (64K)
> I/O is limited to serial port communications (i.e., modems and printers)
>
> And a bunch more. I still use HyperCard frequently as well, but only to
> extract data in order to port old files to LiveCode. Those who are still
> using it daily most likely have utility stacks that they need and which
> they have not ported to something else yet. I was in that position
> myself for several years.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@...
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>

I applaud `trying to be polite`. I also admire boldly exchanging sincere opinions. In addition, I admire cutting right to the chase. :-)
Your analysis is exactly what what I want to read. i.e. It contains truthful pros and cons. From these, I can make a timely decision
based upon my needs and CODB. I find your last sentence sums up what I was alluding. As long as HC satisfies requirement I
may have for business,THEN continue to use it. :-) On the other hand,to be alert. When the graph changes,and signal changes
required in software,then do what is necessary. Where is it written that writing cogent opinions based upon logic,are impolite? :-)
I`m not on this list to filter opinions. I`m here to listen and learn about HC. IF I can glean positive input about it,as well as the cons,
THEN I will concentrate on learning from those that know. :-)
Cheers
Gene H


From: J. Landman Gay
To: HyperCard-Mailing-List
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: [HC]



On 10/31/12 11:21 AM, Gene Henley wrote:

People are trying to be polite, which is a trademark of this list. Put
more baldly, it goes like this:

HyperCard has been dead for 20 years. It will only run on very old Macs
and has a limited feature set. If you plan to use the software only for
yourself, and you are willing to maintain old machines and forgo any
modern features then it should work for you.

HyperCard has far fewer capabilities than newer software like LiveCode.
For all but the most basic things you will need to find add-ons called
externals. There were thousands of those though, and if you can track
them down you will be able to expand its feature set to include almost
everything that was supported 20 years ago.

Some of its limitations:

No support for modern networking protocols
No support for color
No support for vector graphics (artwork must be black and white bitmaps
in MacPaint format)
No support for native internet access
No support for mobile devices
No support for common programming structures like arrays
Limited support for custom code libraries
Limited support for object grouping (2 groups only)
Icons cannot be larger than 32 pixels square
Audio is limited to a single non-standard format and can not exceed 10
seconds
The number of resources per stack (audio, icons, externals, etc) is
limited to the size of the Mac resource fork (64K)
I/O is limited to serial port communications (i.e., modems and printers)

And a bunch more. I still use HyperCard frequently as well, but only to
extract data in order to port old files to LiveCode. Those who are still
using it daily most likely have utility stacks that they need and which
they have not ported to something else yet. I was in that position
myself for several years.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 10/31/12 3:42 PM, Gene Henley wrote:
> IF I can glean positive input about it,as well as the cons,
> THEN I will concentrate on learning from those that know. :-)

Well, I misstated one thing. The resource fork allows 128K, not 64K, so
you get twice as much space. :)

On the other hand, I forgot to mention that HC is limited to reading
only text files. You can't read binary data.

Since you have the setup already, jump in. See how it goes. It will
teach you the concepts, language and syntax, which you can mostly
transfer over to LiveCode if you later decide to go there. But a big
disadvantage is that the two are not identical and you will have to
unlearn a lot of HC to make the transition. Most HC pros got pretty
frustrated with that part, and it takes about six weeks to undo what you
think you know. That's why I think people suggest you skip right to the
more modern option.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

The resource fork allows 16MB. Not 64K, not 128K; 16MB.
On Oct 31, 2012 2:14 PM, "J. Landman Gay" <jacque@[redacted].com wrote:

> **
>
>
> On 10/31/12 3:42 PM, Gene Henley wrote:
> > IF I can glean positive input about it,as well as the cons,
> > THEN I will concentrate on learning from those that know. :-)
>
> Well, I misstated one thing. The resource fork allows 128K, not 64K, so
> you get twice as much space. :)
>
> On the other hand, I forgot to mention that HC is limited to reading
> only text files. You can't read binary data.
>
> Since you have the setup already, jump in. See how it goes. It will
> teach you the concepts, language and syntax, which you can mostly
> transfer over to LiveCode if you later decide to go there. But a big
> disadvantage is that the two are not identical and you will have to
> unlearn a lot of HC to make the transition. Most HC pros got pretty
> frustrated with that part, and it takes about six weeks to undo what you
> think you know. That's why I think people suggest you skip right to the
> more modern option.
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].com> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 10/31/12 6:58 PM, Rebecca Bettencourt wrote:
> The resource fork allows 16MB. Not 64K, not 128K; 16MB.

Ah. Thanks. You'd remember better than I do, I think. :) It's been a
very long time, mostly I just remember always running out of space.

The other drawback I almost posted was the limit on the size of hard
drives that HC could work with. I remember when anything over 2 gigs
would break the file dialog. That got fixed near the end, but there were
no terrabyte drives back then. Do you (or anyone) happen to know if HC
would work with today's super huge drives?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].comHyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

16MB was a lot in HyperCard's day. Not so much anymore. When computers
became able to handle higher-fidelity audio and higher-resolution
color images, that's when you started smashing into that 16MB limit.
:)

(When the Resource Manager was designed, the Macintosh had 128K of RAM
and 400K of disk space. To make the most efficient use of the space,
it was considered acceptable for the Resource Manager to use 16-bit
[signed!] integers as pointers into the resource map and 24-bit
[unsigned, thankfully] integers as pointers into the resource data.
Hence the 2^15 = 32K limit on the size of the resource map [reached
when you had 2,727 resources, or fewer if any of them were named] and
the 2^24 = 16MB limit on the size of the resource data.)

IIRC the disk size limitation applied to either the startup disk or
the disk HyperCard was on; I don't remember which one. The limitation
existed because when doing certain operations (creating a new stack,
compacting a stack, and editing a script are the ones I remember)
HyperCard would try to calculate the remaining space on disk. Any
drive with more than 2^31 = 2GB available would cause the 32-bit
signed integer it used in the calculation to overflow, making
HyperCard think the disk had some negative number of bytes left and
thus get very confused. I think you can safely keep the stacks you're
working on on a super-huge drive as long as HyperCard itself is on a
<2GB disk.

(I use a 2GB disk image with SheepShaver and a 24MB disk image with
vMac myself.)

-- Rebecca Bettencourt


On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:50 PM, J. Landman Gay
<jacque@[redacted].com wrote:
>
>
>
> On 10/31/12 6:58 PM, Rebecca Bettencourt wrote:
> > The resource fork allows 16MB. Not 64K, not 128K; 16MB.
>
> Ah. Thanks. You'd remember better than I do, I think. :) It's been a
> very long time, mostly I just remember always running out of space.
>
> The other drawback I almost posted was the limit on the size of hard
> drives that HC could work with. I remember when anything over 2 gigs
> would break the file dialog. That got fixed near the end, but there were
> no terrabyte drives back then. Do you (or anyone) happen to know if HC
> would work with today's super huge drives?
>
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque@[redacted].com> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>

Gene,

Given the machinery you run, and your stated willingness to use
"good enough" hardware and software, for what I am taking to be
"in-house" needs, I believe Hypercard/HyperTalk is worth your time.

A lot of us are still using it in business settings. I should
point out though, that I am also using an add-on product called
"Reports 9 to 5" for Hypercard that really supercharges HC's
printing/data reporting capabilities. This product gives me great
database report capabilities (scriptable Invoices, sales reports,
etc., etc.) that would be very hard, if not impossible, to do
just in HC. But in all these years, I have not found a product
that beats this HC and Reports add-on combo for my specific
needs. So I still run G4 machines for my staff that uses the HC
programs I've written. There are some quirks and pitfalls, but
should you decided to go this route, folk on this list can help.

As many others are pointing out, you need to know that HC will
become almost useless to you, should you need to move to Intel
Macs. However, also as others have pointed out, any effort you
put into learning HC will be easily transferred to a product
called "LiveCode" -- which will make programs that run on any
modern computer, and also would not need the "Reports 9 to 5"
add-on.

My 2 cents.

Tim



On 10/31/12 11:07 PM, Gene Henley wrote:
>
>
> Tim, I am not an accomplished programmer,nor do I strive to be one.
> I merely want to know if HC is a viable productive addition to my
> business tools."Proof of pudding."
> I have a small in home MLM business. My CODB is carefully
> analyzed. I do not know if HC has any fervent believers that
> also input improvements to it. My task is to find out.
> This is not a hobby. I`m not looking at it simply "Because it`s there."
> I intend to use it,but only if it satisfies my business requirements.
> Cheers
> Gene Henley
>
> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com ( Now in Japan!)
>
> From: "Tim Selander" <selander@[redacted].attne.jp
> <mailto:selander%40tkf.att.ne.jp>>
> To: <HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [HC]
>
> > Hi Gene,
> >
> > Those are great machines to run HC on. (Well, I'm not sure what
> > an MDD is, but the others are good!)
> >
> > If you are looking to make software solutions for your personal
> > or your company's use on those machines, HC is great -- go for
> > it! If you want to make software to release/sell to other people,
> > then HC will probably disappoint you.
> >
> > Tim Selander
> > Tokyo, Japan
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/31/12 6:04 AM, Gene Henley wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I have a Quicksolver G4 Tiger,a Power PC 7200 with external SCSI burner,
> >> an all-in one with OS 9.2,and
> >> a MDD G4 Tiger.
> >> Additionally, I have standby Dells with XP. Is there hope while there is
> >> life?
> >> Cheers
> >> Gene H
> >>
> >> www.thinkgene.stemtechbiz.com
> >>
> >> From: Alain Farmer
> >> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 3:28 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [HC]
> >>
> >> Hi Gene,
> >>
> >> If you have an old-mac and/or have an emulator (ex: sheepshaver), then
> >> you can still use HyperCard usefully.
> >>
> >> Otherwise, the scriptors that I know [of] are using MetaCard or RunRev.
> >>
> >> In both cases, you would/will use these if you want to create desktop
> >> applications.
> >>
> >> The Web is another animal.
> >>
> >> What Dan and other(s) are imagining (if I have grasped this thread
> >> accurately) is the power and simplicity of HyperCard/HyperTalk if/when
> >> the become web-native. Dynamic-HTML (HTML, CSS, Javascript) are still
> >> too complicated for most people.
> >>
> >> Or perhaps this is just me plugging an old idea that I have not
> >> accomplished yet, e.g. wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to author and
> >> script the web as easily as it was to author and script HyperCard
> >> stacks? UserLevels 1 (browse) and 2 (editing content) are a cinch. With
> >> userLevel 3, we could co-author graphics; some tools exist in this
> >> regard. UserLevel 4 (authoring) is do-able; I have seen many web-based
> >> wysiwyg interface-building kits that allow drag & drop, etc. UserLevel 5
> >> (scripting) is still R&D-ish; there are some tools for converting xTalk
> >> into JavaScript. While I agree that JavaScript is no as easy as
> >> HyperTalk, as a user of both I see the mappings rather
> >> straightforwardly. I've not abandonned the project, but clearly it is
> >> too-big for me to pull-off solo.
> >>
> >> Welcome to the HyperCard community, Gene. It's still alive! ;-)
> >>
> >> Alain
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Gene Henley <mhenley2@[redacted].net> <mailto:mhenley2%40verizon.net> <mailto:mhenley2%40verizon.net>>
> >> To: HyperCard-Mailing-List <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:HyperCard%40yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:44:29 PM
> >> Subject: [HC]
> >>
> >> Thank you. I`ll not go through a series of "if/thens"
> >> To the point. I have acquired a bunch of HC books,cd`s,and floppies.
> >> I try to approach anything new to me as "one bite at a time",starting
> >> from basics.
> >> This will not be a hobby. I hope the result will be useful. I have a
> >> very small
> >> in home business. IF HC has little productive use,and IF there is little
> >> hope
> >> for fine tuning to productive usefulness,THEN I wonder why I expend the
> >> energy.
> >> On the other hand,perhaps the nay sayers are wrong.
> >> You have my attention.
> >> Cheers
> >> Gene H
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >